cedar fences
#11
So I'm planning my fence, leaning strongly toward splurging and doing it in western red cedar because the idea of crafting this custom/"good neighbor" fence out of wet twisty pressure treated is just too ugly to think about

Anyway - I've contacted 4 distributors in the north-west, as well as a couple along the east coast and finally 3 lumber yards in town (none of which include any big-box store)

Shipping costs ignored, the distributors in the north-west are all more expensive than 2 of the lumberyards here in town, and one of the local vendors is at least twice the price as the other two.

Yet they are all calling them the same thing in so far as grade. Additionally, it seems across the board it's all milled rough one side and smooth the other.

I think I'd want to make the fence either all rough, or all smooth, and since one side is already smooth, I'd figure "ok, plane the rough side." One distributor, when I mentioned this said that would put me below 3/4" and that "the rough side is the show side." It got me thinking - if I had one side of the fence rough, and the other smooth, which is the "good side" that would face the neighbor? And how much depth must be removed to get rid of that rough side if I wanted to plane it smooth? I can't imagine much more than a 1/16" or so..

That aesthetic question aside, the real question I have is, how can I verify that the local guys are actually selling real western red cedar? I don't have any prior experience working with it, but find it suspicious that a local lumber yard in western NY would sell it cheaper than a lumber-yard in washington state.

I'd like to go local, and I plan to go look at the stock first, but I want to make sure it's the real deal and not some eastern/yellow variety.

thoughts?
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#12
Does western cedar come in more flavors than red?

I have never bothered to pay any special attention to the variety of cedar on the shelf at the borg, but this would seem a fairly accurate representation:



I have dealt with a bit of it over the years and I have never seen any that was planed smooth on one side. It has always been rough on all four sides. And it isn't 3/4" thick either. It is usually so green that the moisture squeezes out around the heads of the screws when you install it.

I have never thought of it as being a premium material. For us it is just a fresh batch of food for the termites. Might be different where it snows.
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#13
For what side to face the good side of the fence.... That's very simple. It's your fence, you are paying for it, you are building it so the answer is very simple. The good side of the fence faces your yard.

I'll never understand why people put up a fence and face the ugly side in.



I'd like to know what borg has 3/4 cedar pickets. Here the max you can get is 5/8 and that's when it's still soaken wet. Now I can get 3/4 rough cedar from a cedar supplier and a lumber yard that carries cedar. But minimum length is 12' and it's rough all 4 sides. Well I say rough it's run through a machine to roughen up the surface as few would like saw marks on their fence.
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#14
Robert Adams said:


For what side to face the good side of the fence.... That's very simple. It's your fence, you are paying for it, you are building it so the answer is very simple. The good side of the fence faces your yard.

I'll never understand why people put up a fence and face the ugly side in.





Around here it's the law - you have to put the "good side" facing the neighbors.

I plan to make a fence that looks the same on both sides, ie. a "good neighbor" fence - the only hiccup is that once side of the cedar is rough, one side smooth, unless I sand or plane it down. So, which is "good" (rough or smooth) I guess is just a matter of taste. Granted, I'm probably just overthinking this as a woodworker


Robert Adams said:


I'd like to know what borg has 3/4 cedar pickets. Here the max you can get is 5/8 and that's when it's still soaken wet. Now I can get 3/4 rough cedar from a cedar supplier and a lumber yard that carries cedar. But minimum length is 12' and it's rough all 4 sides. Well I say rough it's run through a machine to roughen up the surface as few would like saw marks on their fence.




Yah I'm not looking at the wet 5/8" cedar "pickets" as labeled at the BORG- rather, buying 8' lenghts of 4/4 cedar from a lumberyard. It's that "rough" surface left on purpose by a machine with rough knives (I guess) that I'd like to plane away in my case.
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#15
Mound, let me know what you find out for the cedar. I'm looking at making a fence to this year. Was looking at white cedar or white oak.
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#16
There is a ton of information out on the innerwebs about cedar, kinda confusing at first - "western red" vs. "inland" being the most interesting one.. I haven't figured out if "eastern white" is the same as "inland red".. coastal trees grow huge (tall and wide) with lots of rain and iron rich soil - leading to fewer knots and more rich color. .The inland variety is the same exact tree, but less rain, less iron, much smaller trees, so more knots and less color.. workability and weather resistance mostly the same so it's more a question of grade. Beyond that I have yet to learn.

I hadn't considered white oak, seems very heavy and like I'd be wasting something I should be building furniture with!

My big thing is I don't want to do it with wet pressure treated because of the way it will just move all over the place, and it's so heavy and dirty to work with if there's much cutting involved. I also don't want to paint it and probably will let it age, so cedar is just seaming like the natural choice, even though it cost more.
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#17
mound said:


[blockquote]Robert Adams said:


For what side to face the good side of the fence.... That's very simple. It's your fence, you are paying for it, you are building it so the answer is very simple. The good side of the fence faces your yard.

I'll never understand why people put up a fence and face the ugly side in.





Around here it's the law - you have to put the "good side" facing the neighbors.

I plan to make a fence that looks the same on both sides, ie. a "good neighbor" fence - the only hiccup is that once side of the cedar is rough, one side smooth, unless I sand or plane it down. So, which is "good" (rough or smooth) I guess is just a matter of taste. Granted, I'm probably just overthinking this as a woodworker


[/blockquote]
It might be a good idea to discuss the construction of the fence with the neighbors before building it.

And, yes, in many places the law requires the good side face the neighbor.
Economics is much harder when you use real money.
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#18
Yup, I intend to. Today they (2 of them) look at a ratty, torn falling over cheap cypress stockade fence with a ratty old white paint job. I'm sure they'll be thrilled to get rid of the existing eyesore!
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#19
mound said:



My big thing is I don't want to do it with wet pressure treated because of the way it will just move all over the place, and it's so heavy and dirty to work with if there's much cutting involved. I also don't want to paint it and probably will let it age, so cedar is just seaming like the natural choice, even though it cost more.




You seem sold on cedar. Pressure treated is manageable though. I built a fence with five 8-foot panels 20 years ago and it's still fine. I stained it and it wasn't obviously PT from the roadway. Movement really wasn't an issue although I did let the boards dry for about two weeks before starting. It took me the better part of three months so they were really dry by the end.

My point is if this will be some distance from an area cedar would make a visible difference then maybe it is worth reevaluating the cost.

Mike
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#20
If you use PT, and one of ten pickets warps...replace them. You're still miles ahead in cost
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