Help with GF Endurovar over water base dye

[WaterlooMarc]

I've used this on a couple projects now and overall I like the finish. I like the color and the ease of application (I have no spray equipment so an easy to brush finish is great for me) and the easy cleanup. But I'm having a big problem. On the first project I thought it was just my technique but on the second project I'm having the same issue and I was much more careful this time.

I'm using it over a water based dye stain, also GF though I doubt that matters, and when I apply the endurovar it lifts the color. I thought the first time I didn't let the stain set long enough so I waited a week this time and I still have the problem. I also thought it was because I was overbrushing so I made sure I didn't do that this time. when I dip the brush back in the tub to reload I can see the stain color come off the brush into the finish...so it's a significant amount of lifting. I thought about sealing the stain before the top coat but the directions say specifically not to use a shellac or sanding sealer.

Any thoughts? Is this a problem with all water based products? I can't imagine it is, I've never had a problem top coating an oil stain with an oil based topcoat. I wipe the stain off until it looks dry, I don't THINK I'm leaving too much on the surface although I guess it's possible. I try not to leave any ON the surface and rub it all off.

Needless to say it's quite a kick in the #%^* to get a project all the way up to the final finish stage and have it come out looking like hammered snot.

[JR1]

You can add a barrier coat of shellac or you can spray the Enduro. I use natural shellac for color or if I can't get what I want I add TransTint.
BTW wipe on shellac brushing takes considerable skill and is not faster.

[jteneyck]

This is a problem with all WB topcoats when you try to brush them over WB dye and/or dye stain with no binder in them. You don't have a problem with (most) OB stains because they (usually) have a binder in them, usually some type of varnish. That binds them to the wood so the OB topcoat doesn't lift them back up when you brush them on. That's not the case with WB dyes; they have no binder so the water in the WB topcoat redissolves some of it and you end up with mud if you apply it by brush. That problem doesn't happen if you use a spray process.

The solution when brushing the topcoat is to spray a light coat of dewaxed shellac over the dye before applying the EnduroVar. You can use rattle can shellac if you don't have spray equipment. I know the directions on the can of EnduroVar say not to apply it over shellac, but they used to say it was OK and their website may still say it is. More important to me, I've been doing it for 5+ years with no issues. I'm doing exactly that on a project right now. Spray the shellac; don't sand; then apply a coat of EnduroVar; sand if needed, and continue on as normal.

John

[jteneyck]

Wiping or brushing on shellac over WB dye stain is not an option. It will lift the dye just like brushing the EnduroVar will.

John

[JR1]

I had good luck wpping shellac over a WB stain but it was a 1/2# coat applied very lightly on a small piece.

[WaterlooMarc]

Interesting. I'm glad the I'm not the problem at least then. So basically the solution is to spray the topcoat (which I figured but is t really an option right now), rattle can shellac, or just switch back to an oil based stain?

[JR1]

You got it!

[jteneyck]

Yes, those are your options. Of those, spraying with rattle can shellac is the fastest and easiest. If you switch to an OB stain be sure to let it dry/cure for at least 72 hours before applying the EnduroVar.

John

[Sawdustd]

As John says, rattle can shellac is your solution. Spray lightly and evenly as you can, shaking in the can frequently. If possible, turn your project so you can spray a "flat" surface to avoid over spray runs which will streak the dye. On vertical surfaces, spray lightly and keep moving. Good luck.

Dave

[Rob Young]

WaterlooMarc said:

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Interesting. I'm glad the I'm not the problem at least then. So basically the solution is to spray the topcoat (which I figured but is t really an option right now), rattle can shellac, or just switch back to an oil based stain?

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Some of things: people keep calling it "rattle can" but the Zinser stuff doesn't have a ball in the can. So if you like to play the "hey new kid, this paint needs mixing, keep shaking it until the little hard glob in the bottom dissolves and stops rattling" joke, you'll have to switch it up and change the story to "keep shaking until the mixing ball comes loose and rattles..."

Second, get something like this : https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00UGHLSDU/ref...JKB7NSWKCRWJ6KY to make spraying with aerosol cans more comfortable. This is just the first one that Google barfed up. You can usually find them at the paint store too. Very handy.

Finally, make sure you invert the can and spray in a safe area until no material comes out. Of all the aerosol cans I've messed with, it seems like the spray shellac will clog the nozzle the fastest. On the plus side, also the easiest to unclog by just popping it off and soaking in alcohol for a while.