What is good? Is good enough good?
#20
Jim, your point about having multiples rings true. In my users, I have 3 #5 jacks, all set up slightly differently, several 3 and 4 smothers and 2 jointers. The only Stanley bench planes that are singletons are a 5 1/2, 4 1/2, a 2 and a 6. I also have various woodies available. I can't afford multiples of the LV and LN planes that I have
Laugh.
Credo Elvem ipsum etiam vivere
Non impediti ratione cogitationis
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#21
Derek,

I think the question really goes to a craftsman taking care of his edges and being proficient and efficient at doing so. I believe if you are efficient at sharpening it only takes less than a minute (as it should) to be back to work, then to me its irrelevant how long the blade stays sharp. No doubt if one is working with the hardest of woods this will become a factor, but still, I'd rather have a steel I can sharpen quickly even if the trade off is less edge retention. In the middle of a project I want to be back to work ASAP.

I remember years ago I was given a Buck locking knife. If you EVER got it sharp, it stayed sharp a long time. But oh, how I hated when it got dull......
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#22
I have found that trying to be perfect, whether sharpening or just working wood, is often the enemy of "good enough".  I have seen woodworkers stall out on projects simply because some aspect of the work is not perfect.  There have been many discussions of sharpening methods, types of steel, freehand v. jigs that ignore the fact that whatever works for you is probably the best method.  I have tried several sharpening methods and after spending way too many $$$ on various methods finally arrived at the conclusion that a combination of diamond stones and the Veritas power sharpener are best for me.

What good is searching for "perfect" if it stops you from producing anything.  I guess I'd rather turn out stuff that is less than perfect rather than strive for some unattainable standard.
Mike


If you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room!

But not today...
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#23
If it passes inspection by the chief inspector,  my dog Abby, it's good enough. Since I retired, I've found it liberating.
A man of foolish pursuits
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#24
From a sharpness standpoint, I can see where sharper is better as long as it buys you more time between honings. You still need to weigh whether there's extra prep time that cancels out the advantage of longer time between sharpenings. I make a lot of pens. I have a collection of "rejects". Except for one or two of them, most customers can't tell the difference between the good ones and the rejects. I can, and that's what matters to me. I work to my standards. I'm not a pro, so I'm in no hurry or under any pressure to finish on a certain time. Unless LOML directs me otherwise.
Still Learning,

Allan Hill
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#25
"I remember years ago I was given a Buck locking knife. If you EVER got it sharp, it stayed sharp a long time. But oh, how I hated when it got dull......" [I can't "Quote". I can't have a "Signature". I can Reply."]

Yup!
Laugh I think mine is still sold. I was distracted by that nasty 'bump' after the edge. There was a concerted attempt to flatten everything into a single plane into the hollow. The beast was a high school bucket list item and is now thumping around in a drawer, I think, where it has been after we quit camping a few decades ago. 


A good knife, but only if you ride a horse and call yourself a full time cowboy. Not good enough for a desk job, however. Now, how's that for staying on topic?
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#26
As a long time hobbyist, I like plain old O-1.  Easy to bring up a burr and quick to touch-up.  When working with chisels, my strop is always within reach and I'll freshen the edge periodically as I work.  When working with planes it depends on what I am doing.  If I am wasting away material with a jack plane or a scrubber, then good enough is good enough.  When it it feels dull, I'll sharpen.  But with finer work I always freshen the edge before I start (jointing edges, shooting end grain and smoothing faces).

I recently built a carving bench base out of Sycamore,  I'd never worked with it before, I had to touch up the edges more often with it than on other woods I work regularly.  Metal planes seemed to drag on it, I had to apply oil and wax to the soles and I tired of it, so I got out some Clark and Williams wooden planes and it was much better.  I don't know what steel they use, but it's what I like best. 

So I guess I'm in the "softer steel, sharpen more often camp."  Being a hobbyist, I can afford the time to sharpen, and I like doing it.

DC
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#27
I am enjoying  this thread (thanks Derek).  I would mention something that I do that gives the feel of a new edge.  I have a piece of rug fastened to a board.  I spray it with Camille oil and when that plane gets a bit hard to push, I reverse pass the plane over the rug and it is easier to work with.  This alone cut my sharpening considerably.  It is the feel of how hard the plane is to push that gives me the feedback when to sharpen or re-oil.  I bought a 3/8" LV PM V-11 blade chisel because I had several mortises to clean up and I am not finding it any 'gooder' than my old boxwood Marples.  They are each plenty good enough.  I have a 3/4" Stanley plastic handle in my apron that I use for all chisel destructive uses;  paint cans, prying old glued pieces apart, etc.  And it too is good enough for the job it has to do.
Cheers ...

Lyn Disbrow: Born in America ... a long long time ago

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#28
i've always been a pretty good sharpener - well, maybe not always, but for a very long time. I learned to keep a fine stone and a strop handy and I hone frequently while working. A while back, I bought Lie-Nielsen A2 replacement irons for all my Stanley bench planes. I quickly realized what "wear resistant" means when used to describe modern, hi tech steels. It means "hard to sharpen." Yes, they hold an edge for a long time, if you can ever get a decent edge to start with.

I had previously gone through a number of sharpening systems looking for one I liked. I finally settled on two oil stones and a strop, because it was simple, relatively clean and I could get and maintain my edges without a lot of fuss. The stones and strop worked on the A2 blades, but sharpening them wasn't quick or easy. I have a couple of A2 irons that I never got truly sharp. All of the steel gurus said that loose diamonds on cast iron were the answer to sharpening A2 and other wear-resistant steels; but, being stubborn as I am, I resisted making a change to another sharpening system. I had been down that road before and had become convinced that you can get good edges with any system if you stick with it long enough to master it. I still believe that. The factor I ignored was the time and effort it takes to get an edge on these modern steels - it takes a lot of both.

Several months ago, I finally capitulated and ordered a large cast iron plate from MSC Industrial Supply. A good friend ran it through his surface grinder and put a real nice, flat surface on both sides. I charged it with very fine 3 micron diamonds and tried it out. The gurus were right, it works great. If I sharpen an A2 iron as well as I can on my oil stones, then run it over the diamond-charged CI plate, and finish with a leather strop chaged with .5 micron diamonds, I get the very sharp edge I was looking for. Moreover, honing with the diamond plate is easy and quick. I leave the CI plate and strop out on my bench and hone on it frequently while I work, just like I used to. I'm back in my comfort zone and I'm very happy. The A2 keeps its edge a long time and it's no longer a challenge to renew it.

As to Derek's question about whether good enough is good enough, I don't know that I have an answer. My O1 irons worked fine for many years. My A2 irons work fine now, but there was a period betwen the O1s and the A2s when my answer would have been "My O1s were good enough. The A2s may be better, but they're not good enough." Now that I've solved my sharpening problem, I may be able to say that the A2 irons are truly better, but I'll need some more time with them before I can say that with certainty. My O1s served me well for many years. I don't know if the A2s will truly be "better" or if I really need them in my work. We'll see.
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