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12-03-2016, 01:29 AM
(This post was last modified: 12-03-2016, 11:35 PM by wood2woodknot.)
I have a project that requires glueing up western red cedar. I've never worked with cedar before so I have several questions before I get into it.
a) What's the best glue to use? This will be for decorative purposes, so stress and weather will not be an issue. Will Titebond II or III work well? Any other glue that won't leave a visible glue line?
b) Because the wood is so porous, I assume it will suck up the glue like crazy. Should I "prime" it with some glue (thinned?) first, then re-apply another coat before clamping? Or should I use some kind of epoxy? Other? I have to do some contour shaping after the glue up.
c) I want a clear finish, so thinking of wipe-on Arm-R-Seal. I thought of BLO to pop the grain and color and then finishing with Arm-R-Seal, but I'm afraid it might darken the color too much. I plan to test first, but want an idea of what I should be expecting.
d) Any suggestions or experiences working with cedar are appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
- AJH
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Gorilla or similar works with oily wood, and most Cedars have oils/resins, though I have sanded, and sealed with a wash coat of Shellac and used just Titebond regular glue.
You could use a seal coat, or just a thinned coat of glue, allow that to dry, it fills pores, and then go for it. I have never felt the need to do much though, just make sure it's jointed/planed clean, and 4 square and it goes together pretty nice, but if you want to assure, and have the time, go for it.
I like Shellac, a thin blonde makes it redder, but so does spit, or anything wet
It is a soft wood, and you can mark it if you treat it roughly, but it is an easy to cut, joint, plane wood. Sanding makes a mess, so wear a mask, and use good DC. It has some history as an allergen, so folks with sensitivities might need to use caution Takes finish pretty well, but will initially darken with most anything.
Western Red Cedar info
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12-03-2016, 07:29 AM
(This post was last modified: 12-03-2016, 07:38 AM by wood2woodknot.)
I've wanted to try working cedar for some time. Daughter has been looking for boat oars to decorate her living room wall. Used (even damaged) ones are almost as expensive as new if you can find them. Happened to see some nice clear cedar cheap at 84 Lumber near me. Figured it would be easy to work and I could possibly get a pair of 5 footers out of a single 2"x6"x72" for less than $15 if I cut the blades and glued them up to the shaft before I shape the oars. Some oars are made up that way anyway and I have seen them made of cedar. Figured I could do a smooth job with a spoke shave, knife, and plane. Cautions: easy to tear out, maybe some funky grain changes. Thought it might be a fun challenge. Basswood might be easier and just as light weight but more expensive and not a true wood for oars and canoe paddles. AND IF IT FAILS, I got the experience of working with something new and not an expensive lesson.
Does this sound like a sane plan, or am I looking for trouble?
Rattle can shellac would be another finish choice but I would probably use it just for a seal coat or two.
Have not been impressed with Gorilla Glue in the past. Will probably give it a test, though.
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(12-03-2016, 01:29 AM)wood2woodknot Wrote: I have a project that requires glueing up western red cedar. I've never worked with cedar before so I have several questions before I get into it.
a) What's the best glue to use? This will be for decorative purposes, so stress and weather will not be an issue. Will Titebond II or III work well? Any other glue that won't leave a visible glue line?
b) Because the wood is so porous, I assume it will suck up the glue like crazy. Should I "prime" it with some glue (thinned?) first, then re-apply another coat before clamping? Or should I use some kind of epoxy? Other? I have to do some contour shaping after the glue up.
c) I want a clear finish, so thinking of wipe-on Arm-R-Seal. I thought of BLO to pop the grain and color and then finishing with Arm-R-Seal, but I'm afraid it might darken the color too much. I plan to test first, but want an idea of what I should be expecting.
d) Any suggestions or experiences working with cedar are appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
- AJH
TBII or III will work well. I made some round bird houses from scrap western red with many glue joints each. They sat in the year-round weather for many years and only got tossed after the birds wore them out. I used TBII on those joints.
I've never done anything special to my western red or aromatic cedar stock in the glue up phase, and I've never had a joint failure with it, for either outdoor or indoor projects. The only glue joints I've ever primed for glueing were joints in which one side was end grain on rocking chair builds, and those weren't cedar.
Finish: I don't usually think of western red cedar when I'm looking for stock with an interesting grain, so I've never been particular about what to put on it. For outdoor projects I'll usually use an outdoor stain with UV protection. Indoors, I usually choose wipe on poly. I made a chimney cabinet from aromatic red cedar that I still have today. I finished it with equal parts BLO, tung oil, and varnish. You're right that cedar will really soak up the finish, so you'll use a lot, relatively speaking.
Good luck.
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I've made several casement windows and doors for my barn/shop out of WRC, Titebond II works well, but III will dry to a very dark glue line if exposed to the weather.
Chisels need to be ultra sharp for cutting across the grains, it will bend and/or tear out when touched by a slightly dull tool...looks great freshly planed, but it can really soak up a finish.
Regards,
Andy
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(12-03-2016, 10:27 AM)Adnick Wrote: Chisels need to be ultra sharp for cutting across the grains, it will bend and/or tear out when touched by a slightly dull tool...looks great freshly planed, but it can really soak up a finish.
Agreed
From The Wood DB "Grain/Texture: Has a straight grain and a medium to coarse texture." What i have found is going with the grain with something like a spokeshave as the OP plans can get weird. If you pull at too steep and angle you might end up pulling a much larger slice than you had planned for. IOW it requires patience, and maintaining a really flat approach. For turning the roundness of the handle if it could be done with a lathe, it would be a quicker, less irksome task. I don't know if the oars seen were Cedar, but if they were machined, I imagine it was a lathe, rather than handwork. The best part of it no matter how it is done is that 84 Lumber will keep stocking it, they have for years. I've also gotten true thickness 2 x 4 at both Lowes, and HD. The stock from HD was as nice as I've ever seen WRC be.
This guy makes a different look, and uses a hand planer for his shaping. Think Octagon, and keep knocking the sharp point off each corner. The hand planer going in a rotary fashion will limit that tear out from the long straight grain
Worst thing they can do is cook ya and eat ya
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Titebond II worked great on my canoe which was WRC
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TB 1 will also work fine.
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Thanks for all the input.
I took a few strokes with my #5 last night to take off the rough faces on a 2-1l2 foot 2x4 sample. Light cuts gave relatively smooth surfaces. Seemed to go well. Might not be perfectly smooth because of cellpockets in the grain, but pleased with what I saw so far. Assuming I'll need some grain filler, or sand to level between several coats of finish.
Thanks for the reminder about TB3 being darker.
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More practice tonight. Just finished cutting out a 2x2x8 inch section from the sample and carved it down to a 1-1/2" diameter shaft using just a sharp chisel and straight edge. Respectable result. Pretty round and true. Gives me confidence the 5 foot shafts won't be too difficult - just slow and careful. Tomorrow will try to work down the end to model the hand grip section. The transition point between different diameters is my concern. Probably change to one of my carving knives for the transition, then back to the chisel for the rest of the grip.
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