Kitchen uppers depth
#11
  
I want to make most of my upper cabinets 14" deep. Height is ~30" and widths are up to just shy of 4 feet. 3/4 ply construction, 1/4 ply backs, upper and lower nailers. Cherry face frames and doors.

My contractor says he's heard of cabinets >12" deep levering the wall screws loose. Surprised me, since I thought 14" as a new trend anyway. Any truth to this?

Thanks!
Best,
Aram, always learning

"Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.” Antoine de Saint-Exupery


Web: My woodworking photo site
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#12
  Re: Kitchen uppers depth by Aram (I want to make most ...)
The cabinet will fall apart before pulling an 8x2 1/2" screw out of the wall studs.

3/4 ply is nice for base cabs, but I still use 1/2" when doing uppers just to keep the weight down.
-who?
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#13
  Re: Kitchen uppers depth by Aram (I want to make most ...)
In contractor grade cabinets I would agree with your contractor. 

In fact I have seen that very issue and was tasked with fixing the issues when I found the problem doing an install of uppers that extended a kitchen run. the units had been in place for about 10 yrs 

The cabinets were pulling against the cleats so hard due to the weight of the contents the cleats bowed and started pulling the screws away from the wall. The cabinet bank would have hit the ground eventually. In the middle of the run it was about 1" away from the wall 

Joe
Let us not seek the Republican Answer , or the Democratic answer. Let us not seek to fix the blame for the past. Let us accept our own responsibility for the future  John F. Kennedy 



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#14
  Re: Kitchen uppers depth by Aram (I want to make most ...)
What JGrout said. 


    I just repaired a few cabinets in a house because they fell off the wall. The cheap ones have no real connection between the rear cleat and the sides. They are just got glued together. 
      
           Also had to build several drawers because they were just hot glued together. 



           What I will never understand about commercial junk cabinets is that they use the cheapest materials combined with the poorest building practices but they use high quality screws. Why waste good screws when the rest is junk just use drywall screws and cheap imported screws. 

          Often the main issue isn't material selection it's how they build using the material. I could use the same material and build a cabinet that won't fall apart....


         As for 12" or 14" just do what you want. I'd like 30"ish deep lower cabs and 14" uppers myself. Standard countertop depth is too shallow for a usable work surface for me. Oh and also make sure the upper cabs are high enough. Less of an issue these days but often they were 18" from the countertop which is too low for normal height people and kitchen appliances.
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#15
  Re: Kitchen uppers depth by Aram (I want to make most ...)
I just built new drawer boxes for my contractor grade cabinets.  The drawers were made of 1/2" vinyl covered particle board, and assembly was just staples (no glue).  Real crap stuff.

The door fronts and drawer fronts are very nice, so I am thinking of making new carcasses for the uppers, re-using the doors.  I was also thinking of raising them about 8" and adding an open shelf at the bottom and crown molding at the top.  There is plenty of open room at the top.  

Alternatively I could add about a 15" high cabinet over each existing cabinet.  It would give a custom cabinet look.  I was planning on making the uppers 15" deep for extra storage.  I always make my cabinets from 3/4" ply.  I would re-use the doors and face frames, so it is just fabbing the carcasses.  (And installing--ugh!)
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#16
  Re: Kitchen uppers depth by Aram (I want to make most ...)
The majority of the commercial cabinets I design have 14" uppers.  For residential I do 12" to maximize the cuts in plywood for the sides.

To support them without ripping off the wall I like the fastcap cabinet hanging screws with the wide heads.   For heavy cabinets I'll typically use 1/4" backer doubled to 1/2" at the top and bottom 3".  The 1/4" backer is set in a 1/2" deep X 1/2" wide rabbet top, bottom and sides, so it can easily be doubled on the backside.   This also allows for a full 1/2" backer if the cabinet will need to be extra heavy duty.
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#17
  Re: Kitchen uppers depth by Aram (I want to make most ...)
Aram. I built the kitchen in our last home and did exactly what you are talking about. All my uppers were 14" deep. It makes a big difference in storage. The only real issue with it is that it wastes wood. But, I used the odd leftovers to build my toe kicks and my fastening cleats.

If you build the cabinets with substantial cleats in the back (using that same leftover odd sized 3/4 inch ply) and a good quality cabinet screw through the cleat, into every stud, you'll be fine.

I did maple cabinets with maple ply.

This is the only picture I could find but you can see the cleats inside the cabinets at the top and bottom. iirc, they were about 3-1/2 inch wide. They were fastened to the carcass sides with pocket screws and a little glue. The 1/4" ply went right over the cleat. I wish these pics were better. I blew up the right cabinet to see better.

[Image: finishedcabs023.jpg]

[Image: df1d48ab-9643-4a7d-ba8d-840310a93397_zpsaavo8tux.jpg]
Neil Summers Home Inspections


When it comes to 'lectricity, I'm a pretty good wood turner.

... Grey Mountain 3/2/21

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#18
  Re: Kitchen uppers depth by Aram (I want to make most ...)
Oh I forgot to mention. The best way to mount your cabs is with a metal track on the wall. Look up the ikea cabinets and buy the track they use its cheap and strong. Then buy the cabinet brackets ad hardware for them. It will make for one of the easiest upper cab installs. Easy to get on the wall and built in leveling feature and strong as the brackets attach to the side panels but also squeeze the back when you tighten the hardware. 

       The big mistake always made with uppers is using the back to attach to the wall. The back is not the structural member it's the sides as they carry all the shelves and weight.
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#19
  Re: Kitchen uppers depth by Aram (I want to make most ...)
Thanks, Snipe. That's pretty much where I'm going. I don't have a pocket screw jig, so I'll have to capture the cleats with screws from the outside. A little annoying because I have to find a way to cover them on the exposed cabinets, but no biggie.

Your kitchen looks great! Nice job.
Best,
Aram, always learning

"Perfection is achieved, not when there is nothing more to add, but when there is nothing left to take away.” Antoine de Saint-Exupery


Web: My woodworking photo site
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#20
  Re: Kitchen uppers depth by Aram (I want to make most ...)
My Kreg pocket jig it the basic set-up. The blue plastic guide (single wide), drill and the driver. I bought a pair of the wide jaw vice grips with the flat, pivoting ends like these and eyeballed the holes. It's not that I'm a minimalist, it's just that I'm cheap.

The kitchen project was my first woodworking project (not recommended) and I didn't want to go crazy on tool purchases if I wasn't going to use them much.

If I were to do it again, I would have bought pre-planed material and bought pre-maid door and drawer fronts. A project like this takes a long time. It took me 10 months.

Half the cabinets were stored in the living room and the other half in the garage. And the drawers and doors in the shop. It takes up a lot of room.
Living room.
[Image: finishedcabs002.jpg]
shop
[Image: bluesaturn003-1.jpg]
garage
[Image: finishedcabs004.jpg]
Neil Summers Home Inspections


When it comes to 'lectricity, I'm a pretty good wood turner.

... Grey Mountain 3/2/21

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