Kitchen Cabinet Build...advice appreciated

[reb]

Hello all,

I am still in the design stage for our kitchen cabinet build that I will doing over the next few months.  I have had a couple different box stores do designs and with everything being "standard sizes" it just doesn't seem like a great way to use up the space.  So I have decided to build them myself, and I do have experience in the woodshop, just not with a project this big.  I have included a couple of the drawings of the lowers and uppers. I was just wondering if any of you had some good advice as far as the build goes.  I don't have a problem with critizim so shoot away.  I don't want to get into the middle of this and all of a sudden say "dang that was really a dumb idea"
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/rbecklund/lowers_zpske7izu7j.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo lowers_zpske7izu7j.jpg"/>
<img src="http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v336/rbecklund/uppers_zpsgrrpkgee.jpg" border="0" alt=" photo uppers_zpsgrrpkgee.jpg"/>

[TmanPDX]

Really hard to see your drawing as I'm color blind, but in general:

Think about 30" deep base + 15" deep uppers. You get 30% more storage for very little footprint. Bonus is the ply results in very little waste provided you can match up lowers + base (30+15 = 45)

Don't incorporate kicks into your cabs. Instead just use 2x4 bases and cover the outside with trim. This allows you to build square cabs + you can level an entire side in one go. 

Door / Drawer companies can build drawer / doors for cheaper than you can buy the material. Just do the casework and let them do the drawers and doors. 

Splurge & go to a good wood retailer + get cabinet grade ply. Stay away from the borg. 

A problem with a project this size is simply storing all the cabs you build before you install them. They take an incredible amount of space. This also will impact finishing. Most home woodworkers simply do not have the space to handle this, so you should think about how you want to do this (I installed, then finished them in place)

[Papa Jim]

1. Get a book. Many of the problems you will encounter have already been solved by expert cabinet makers. There are a lot of them out there and this is professional advice at a very reasonable cost.

2. Got a table saw? If not, forget it.

3. Don't be in a hurry to make sawdust. Spnd a  lot of time designing the layout and (in my opinion at least) do detailed drawing and cutting list of each cabinet.

4. Don't scimp on materals, especially hardware. You are about to save yourself a lot of money. Make sure it is a project you're proud of.

5. Keep the finishing simple. There are a lot of pieces to this puzzle and this is not the time for a complacated  multi stage finishing process.

6. Take your time, and by that I mean don't feel pressured by any arbitrary deadline.  You will be learing a lot on this journey so enjoy the trip.

Good Luck!

[Cooler]

Don't incorporate kicks into your cabs. Instead just use 2x4 bases and cover the outside with trim. This allows you to build square cabs + you can level an entire side in one go. 

I endorse this practice.  I built my last cabinet using a separate 2 x 4 frame as a toe kick.  I assembled the base with a front 2 x 4 and a rear and two end pieces.  Mine was just for a small cabinet so I did not need any additional short pieces to connect the front and the back.  I cut a piece of sheathing to fit the top.  

I did not fit the sheathing until AFTER I leveled the base and attached it to the floor.  Then I screwed on the sheathing.  If you are doing multiple cabinets the sheathing will eliminate the need for precise placement of the 2 x 4s to support each cabinet.

Aside from the materials efficiency, leveling was much, much easier.

[Robert Adams]

I'll seccond the seperate base although using a 2x4 frame is a little short. With only 3.5 for your toe kick the bottoms of the cabs will get kicked allot. I make mine 4.5" to 5". Depends on weather there will be flooring done after the cabs or before. Even a 4" toe kick will invite damage. The toes of my shoes are almost 3" so a traditional 3.5" is not enough. 

         Also I made my cabs frameless which I prefer. More usable space in cabs and wider deawers. I attach a doubled up plywood beam to the wall for the back of the cabs to sit on. Then for the front I make a plywood box that I screw to the floor (if a pier and beam). So both are leveled and attached and I just sit the boxes on it.
        You can also go with adjustable feet on the front if you want.


           Looking at your drawing I'm thinking maybe move the dishwasher to the other side of the sink and then make the cabs on the right deeper because of the fridge depth. (I would make all the cabs up to 30" like mentioned already)

             Not sure what cad you are using but I drew ours up in chief architect which is very easy to use and you can drop in standard size stuff and with a click look at all of it in 3d. I gave up on Autocad for everything but mechanical 2 drawings.

[Steve N]

Hello all,

I am still in the design stage for our kitchen cabinet build that I will doing over the next few months.  I have had a couple different box stores do designs and with everything being "standard sizes" it just doesn't seem like a great way to use up the space.  So I have decided to build them myself, and I do have experience in the woodshop, just not with a project this big.  I have included a couple of the drawings of the lowers and uppers. I was just wondering if any of you had some good advice as far as the build goes.  I don't have a problem with critizim so shoot away.  I don't want to get into the middle of this and all of a sudden say "dang that was really a dumb idea"

I'm not sure if right in front of you those drawings are clear, but in the transition to here, between too dark color, and not enough notable detail the photo isn't to helpful.

You answer and make comments that will be made by most all first time home kitchen makers. "just not with a project this big" which brings about " I don't want to get into the middle of this and all of a sudden say "dang that was really a dumb idea"

Fact is space to store the completed cabinets in will be a problem, if you don't have it. If you have it the rest is just going to be time. If you have a specific timeline given to by the "Boss" things might get weird. If you have no timeline, and have the space to store the cabinets until you are ready to install. It is doable, and many before you have made the trip.

My suggestion is make a single cabinet, then you and Mama, and anyone else you know, critique it. I mean really look at it. Do you want that piece, and a bunch of it's Brothers and Sisters hanging on the walls of your kitchen? If the answer is a unanimous yes, start building. I've unfortunately have had to do it both ways, and making a cabinet to replace one already hanging in the kitchen is a sorry situation, and it will create more problems than it solves. You want to have all the cabinets made, finished and ready to go, so you can take your current kitchen down, prep the walls, and get everything back up over a weekend. Longer and there will be stress DAMHIKT.

Good luck, make that first one..

[reb]

awesome advice, thanks guys!

Just to answer a few of the questions, I have a "near" full shop and have plenty of room for the storage of the boxes.  I was told to use Melamine for the boxes but I don't like the stuff and thought that using prefinished oak plywood would be a great alternative.  I know I can get the drawers and the doors made probably cheaper than what I can make them for but honestly I REALLY want to make them all myself.  Sorry the drawings didn't come thru very good, I did a screen capture off of Autocad and it looked clear in paint but definately not in here.  As far as hinges and drawer slides it will be all blum...not going cheap and they will all be soft close.  If you have any more comments I would appreciate it!

Also I am very strongly looking at a track saw for this project.  I have read the reviews but any other advice would be great on these!  Thanks!

[Steve N]

I have a track saw, and a cabinet TS. I'll use the track saw to break down pieces, but once they get cabinet sized I use the TS. It is simply a more accurate tool, and the blade selections are far superior. You can buy a Freud blade just for cutting your pre-finished plywood, and it is just about a perfect cut.

If you have a circular saw you are comfortable with you can use it and get a cut that will be as good as a track saw, might take a second more to make it ready to cut, but if you are brand new to a track saw you will be cutting slower anyhow, getting used to it. You could use the $$$$$$ for hardware. A lot of guys here live to spend your money, don't get me wrong it's fun, but I think if you haven't used a circular saw shoe, you may buy a track saw to find you really didn't need to.

[Roly]

Remember the drawer/door handle projections on adjacent cabinets by dishwasher.  Not sure what is in the upper left corner of the drawing, but is there access ?     Could you export the drawings in a different format that we could see what is what ?    Roly

[jteneyck]

My advise is to NOT use 2x4's for the base; use two layers of plywood glued and screwed or brad nailed together.  2x4's can shrink if you don't let them acclimate for a good long while, and when they do your base cabinets will tilt forward so anything you spill on the counter top will run off the front.  Not nice. That won't happen with plywood. 

I made my boxes out of Melamine and would do it again.  20 years old and still look new inside, including the sink cabinets. Prefinished maple plywood is nice, too, but costs a lot more.  I wouldn't use oak plywood for the boxes; too much grain for my taste.

And I agree with your comment about wanting to make the doors and drawers.  Buying them would be cheaper, but the doors and drawer fronts are what people see.  Making them yourself will give you a lot of satisfaction; none in buying them.  If I ever build another kitchen I would be a lot more inclined to buy the boxes and make the doors/drawer fronts myself.  I can tell you there is little joy in making those boxes; just a lot of hard work moving tons (literally) of sheet goods, multiple times.  You can fill almost any space with stock cabinets and fillers, with maybe one or two custom cabinets required in some situations. 

John