Some workbench questions

[iclark]

The vises and dog holes are the work horses!  My main regret...dog hole spacing is 6"!

Bill,

What would you recommend/prefer for dog hole spacing?

[Derek Cohen]

Derek:

You need to look at Rob Cosman's mdf student benches, they have dog holes, that aren't temporary and totally stable.   Never would have came up with that bench, but never would do an mdf woodworking bench for myself.

Regards,
Andy

mos maiorum

Andy, can you pos pics here. All I can find are solid wood euro style benches. That is all Rob has ever used, as far as I am aware. Even his "bench build" video uses and advocated solid wood.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[MattP]

The idea of building a bench top from MDF is not new. Many consider this, and ply, to be a shortcut to a flat bench top. The problem with MDF and ply is that it does not endure - MDF is too weak for dog holes, and both cannot be resurfaced. It is not a shortcut; it is temporary. 

Paint or dye does not alter the structural components of benches like these. Do you want something that looks like a workbench, or do you want something to work on? 

The width of a bench depends on how you work. If you have a bench out in the middle if a room, and can work (or plan to work) from both sides, then you can make it wide. However, if like me, where the bench is close to a wall, and worked from one side (so I need to stretch across it), unless you have arms like a gorilla, keep it under 22". 

Regards from Perth

Derek

1. Not looking for a shortcut. Looking for a surface I can make black, because I think it will look cool, and if I can have a cool looking workbench, I want to have a cool looking workbench. MDF painted black or construction lumber dyed black, it's all the same to me. The only reason I was thinking MDF was because the idea of dying wood black had temporarily slipped my mind, so I was thinking about painting the surface black.

I've seen some of your work, you should be completely down with the idea of making things look good.

2. Who said anything about paint or dye altering anything's structure?

3. Good point. That's a good argument for 44" rather than 48". Thank you. (My bench will be accessible from all sides).

[Derek Cohen]

1. Not looking for a shortcut. Looking for a surface I can make black, because I think it will look cool, and if I can have a cool looking workbench, I want to have a cool looking workbench. 

Matt, a dark top makes for less light, and this makes it more difficult to work on. My bench has a light Oak top. Only the base is dark Jarrah. 

In my opinion, a "cool" bench is one that is well-thought out from a design perspective, and well-made. Cool can be old, as in a treasured vintage hand-me-down, or a new, but to-be-vintage-one-day bench. 

I guess it depends on whether you want to look at it, or use it


Regards from Perth

Derek (a little envious that you have the space for a freestanding bench that can be used from both sides)

[MattP]

Matt, a dark top makes for less light, and this makes it more difficult to work on. My bench has a light Oak top. Only the base is dark Jarrah. 

In my opinion, a "cool" bench is one that is well-thought out from a design perspective, and well-made. Cool can be old, as in a treasured vintage hand-me-down, or a new, but to-be-vintage-one-day bench. 

I guess it depends on whether you want to look at it, or use it


Regards from Perth

Derek (a little envious that you have the space for a freestanding bench that can be used from both sides)

I agree with you to this extent: I'm not willing to sacrifice functionality for cool. But I don't see how it is going to matter in a well-lighted shop. If I were working by candlelight, I'd want all the reflection from the top I could get. In a well-lighted shop, I think I could argue (if I were feeling contrary, which I am not) that the dark surface would have the advantage of creating a contrast that improved visibility. But I'm not feeling contrary, so I'll stick to just saying that I can't see how it'd matter. If I'm wrong, I'll plane off the dyed wood or replace the painted MDF and post here for you to ship me a serving of crow to gnaw on.

Regards from Vegas
Matt (a little envious you have talent)

[Adnick]

Derek:

Took a class with Rob, all students benches are mdf.....never looked on his site for one but if I can't find one, will ask him for some pictures

[rwe2156]

One issue in building up a top using sheet material is bonding without resorting to screws, which I find unattractive and undesirable. A vaccum press is the best way to achieve good bonding.

24" is a good width for a bench.  IMO 48 is entirely too wide. Being able to approach a workpiece from both sides is necessary.

Trying to use your workbench to glue up large projects does not warrant excessive width. If you need to use your bench for a wide glue up, You can use a piece of melamine sheet product or better, have a separate assembly table.

Another problem with MDF is the it does not hold fasteners well. Take this into account when mounting vises.

Here's my suggestion:

22-24" wide. 4 layers of 3/4 MDF topped with a sheet of 3/4 oak plywood. This will give you a 3 3/4" thick top. Use wood glue do not use contact cement. Use clamping cauls.

Apron of hardwood attached with glue and counter sunk screws. Put your dog holes in this strip.

If you need holes for bench hooks you will find 3" top made this way will not work very well because the holes will tend to wobble out.

[Admiral]

One issue in building up a top using sheet material is bonding without resorting to screws, which I find unattractive and undesirable.  A vaccum press is the best way to achieve good bonding.

You can also use shop made cauls with a slight convex curve to keep pressure on the middle, with lots of clamps.

http://www.mikes-woodwork.com/Cauls.htm

[MattP]

One issue in building up a top using sheet material is bonding without resorting to screws, which I find unattractive and undesirable.  A vaccum press is the best way to achieve good bonding.

24" is a good width for a bench.  IMO 48 is entirely too wide.  Being able to approach a workpiece from both sides is necessary.

Trying to use your workbench to glue up large projects does not warrant excessive width.  If you need to use your bench for a wide glue up, You can use a piece of melamine sheet product or better, have a separate assembly table.

Another problem with MDF is the it does not hold fasteners well.  Take this into account when mounting vises.

Here's my suggestion:

22-24" wide.  4 layers of 3/4  MDF topped with a sheet of 3/4 oak plywood. This will give you a 3 3/4" thick top. Use wood glue do not use contact cement.  Use clamping cauls.  

Apron of hardwood attached with glue and counter sunk screws. Put your dog holes in this strip.

If you need holes for bench hooks you will find 3" top made this way will not work very well because the holes will tend to wobble out.

I am about three hours of work away from completing my first build ever. It's just a corner thing-- cabinet, I guess-- with a solid face on which to mount my television. Before that, all I have ever completed were carving projects. In building this thing, I spent about half my time coping with the inadequacy of my current Craftsman 23" deep workbench I inherited from my father in law. As I have said, I don't have room for a workbench and a dedicated assembly table. My workbench is going to have to be my assembly table. And 2' is simply not sufficient for an assembly table. I ran into a need for more space on my very first project. I think 2' is perfectly fine for a dedicated work surface on which you are making cutting boards or working on the individual components of bigger projects. But as soon as you start thinking about using it for assembly of bigger projects, you start wishing for more space than 2'.

As for the sheet of melamine proposal: Maybe your workload is different than the one I have planned, but for me, I am going to be spending all of my shop time for the foreseeable future working on big pieces that I can readily access from both sides of a 4' bench. My next project is designed as a 61" x 31" x 62" tall display case. I plan to make nine doors for my house. I plan to make a dining room table. For me, that's probably the next three to five years of woodworking right there. If I were to build 2' and then use a melamine lash up whenever I needed it, I'd spend literally most of my time with the melamine lash up.

[MattP]

You can also use shop made cauls with a slight convex curve to keep pressure on the middle, with lots of clamps.

http://www.mikes-woodwork.com/Cauls.htm

I have the wood for cauls in my shop right now. As soon as I finish this corner mount thingy, I'm going to crank out 9 sets of cauls and a rack to hang them on. That should be much easier than this last thing has been for me.