afci/gfci breaker
#11
  
I see there are now combo breakers.  Of course, I have an Eaton box, and they are famous for having problems, particularly with ham operators nearby.  It would be my luck to put one in and have a ham move in next door. I can't tell if they have fixed them, the ARRL seems to think so, but there are plenty of complaints online.

I can't really tell if I should have them in my shop, but I think I should.  I have one circuit where it would be easy to just put afci and gfci outlets in the first box in the circuit, but another circuit isn't so easy. I would need two outlets of each type. The combo breakers can be had for a little cheaper than that.
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#12
  Re: afci/gfci breaker by EricU (I see there are now ...)
Not sure why anyone would purposely put one of those breakers in their house let alone their shop. I'm not a fan of them and only use them when I'm forced to. 

     FYI the dual rating of afci and gfci doesn't mean it's a new breaker it just means that ul certify it for both as the actual function of an afci does both but they haven't been able to market it as such until recently.
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#13
  Re: afci/gfci breaker by EricU (I see there are now ...)
I follow the ASHI standard for home inspections. They were involved in writing the national exam. They want us to recommend afci outlets in every bedroom which are required here. But the building/electrical inspectors don't care if they're there or not, so neither do the builders. .... So, neither do I.

It's an odd position to be in when inspecting a brand new home and calling something like that out right after the electrical inspector passed it.
Neil Summers Home Inspections


When it comes to 'lectricity, I'm a pretty good wood turner.

... Grey Mountain 3/2/21

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#14
  Re: afci/gfci breaker by EricU (I see there are now ...)
well, I bought a 15 amp outlet at HD, only costs $22. They didn't have a 20 amp, or I would have gotten that one too. We may not have adopted the code around here, but from the looks of the electrical aisles at the BORGs, the onset of usage is upon us.  In fact, the combined AFCI/GFCI 15A outlets were sold out at Lowes. I suppose I will order a 20 amp outlet and see how it goes.

on edit: just got the 20A outlet from Amazon. I'll try it out and see if it really causes me any problems
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#15
  Re: afci/gfci breaker by EricU (I see there are now ...)
(02-13-2017, 01:08 PM)Robert Adams Wrote: Not sure why anyone would purposely put one of those breakers in their house let alone their shop. I'm not a fan of them and only use them when I'm forced to. 

     FYI the dual rating of afci and gfci doesn't mean it's a new breaker it just means that ul certify it for both as the actual function of an afci does both but they haven't been able to market it as such until recently.

Robert, I had this same thought, that I shouldn't bother.  However, using an outlet would make it easy to remove if there are too many nuisance trips. And I'm doing this while nobody is watching, if you know what I mean.  My understanding is that they aren't too bad, with the notable exception of the early Cutler Hammer breakers.  I do wonder about my shop.  The rest of the basement should be no problem, and it will not bother me to have protection. 

I don't think I have had a nuisance trip on the gfci circuits in the house, and we have a gfci breaker that protects a lot of outlets that get used with power tools quite frequently.  My house was wired by some pretty lackadaisical people, and I might retrofit afci breakers or outlets if this experiment works out. Some of the basement wiring is particularly bad, and I'm getting rid of a lot of that. I think it was done by a previous owner that wasn't very good at wiring.
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#16
  Re: afci/gfci breaker by EricU (I see there are now ...)
(02-13-2017, 01:08 PM)Robert Adams Wrote: Not sure why anyone would purposely put one of those breakers in their house let alone their shop.

Mostly for the safety improvement and insurance cost savings.  Electrical connections are blamed for something like 90% of house fires, and an AFCI essentially eliminates that risk.
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#17
  Re: afci/gfci breaker by EricU (I see there are now ...)
(02-15-2017, 01:26 PM)geek2me Wrote: Mostly for the safety improvement and insurance cost savings.  Electrical connections are blamed for something like 90% of house fires, and an AFCI essentially eliminates that risk.

Never seen an insurance company give a discount for breakers. Also these don't play well with motors either. Also as long as those electrical connections are in a box it's almost a non issue the breaker will trip way way before the wire heats up. (Unless it's a certain brand...)

     Nothing against trying to be safe. They are a great idea but not great in actual use.  The brown cutler hammer afci breakers are awful for nuisance trips. 

      Afci breakers came about from the age of crappy clock radios. They were well known to start many fires. In bedrooms they are a good idea and don't bother me as we don't have anything plugged into outlets in there...
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#18
  Re: afci/gfci breaker by EricU (I see there are now ...)
(02-13-2017, 07:19 PM)Snipe Hunter Wrote: I follow the ASHI standard for home inspections. They were involved in writing the national exam. They want us to recommend afci outlets in every bedroom which are required here. But the building/electrical inspectors don't care if they're there or not, so neither do the builders. .... So, neither do I.

It's an odd position to be in when inspecting a brand new home and calling something like that out right after the electrical inspector passed it.
Isn't that what someone is paying you for though?
Confused 
And yeah, I read the part about the builders and inspectors.  But do three wrongs make a right?  Can a buyer sue you specifically for NOT calling it out?
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#19
  Re: afci/gfci breaker by EricU (I see there are now ...)
(02-15-2017, 01:26 PM)geek2me Wrote: Mostly for the safety improvement and insurance cost savings.  Electrical connections are blamed for something like 90% of house fires, and an AFCI essentially eliminates that risk.

(02-15-2017, 06:37 PM)KC Wrote: Isn't that what someone is paying you for though?
Confused 
And yeah, I read the part about the builders and inspectors.  But do three wrongs make a right?  Can a buyer sue you specifically for NOT calling it out?


         When you deal with inspectors there are two rules.

             1. The inspector is always right.
  
              2. When the inspector is wrong see rule number 1.


             Have had to change lots of things that were done to code because the inspector wanted it done his way.
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#20
  Re: afci/gfci breaker by EricU (I see there are now ...)
(02-15-2017, 09:57 PM)Robert Adams Wrote:          When you deal with inspectors there are two rules.

             1. The inspector is always right.
  
              2. When the inspector is wrong see rule number 1.


             Have had to change lots of things that were done to code because the inspector wanted it done his way.

So I'll revise my question.  If the codes actually mean anything, and the government entities are actually enforcing them, and a licensed private inspector is providing a service after the fact... it seems to me like an actual code violation resulting in a fire (as an example) could be big trouble if the right litigious person came along.
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