Anyone ever do blind box joints?

[hbmcc]

Sorry, Arlin. I introduced dovetails because they are what we see and make as "half-blind" joints, not a 'half-blind finger joint. They are nearly the same joint--cut the same way. But, like Derek said in Bandit's post, "Why not do a dovetail, instead?" The dovetail is a stronger joint.

Yes, if we work at it, we can make any joint we want. [And, I see while I type, Bandit is already onto the problem.] The lapped portion--what makes the joint blind--is usually 1/3 to 1/4 the thickness of the face board; choosing the face to hide the joint. But, it can be whatever thickness. Your reference to a "rock solid" joint is only as good as the glue, and likely straps, keeping the panels together. Even a tight mechanical fit will shrink and swell into a loose one. And, as my 30-year-old house reminds me constantly (glued flooring) glue will fail eventually. Look at all the old furniture Firley records for his Furniture Record. The drawers are peppered with nail repairs. https://thefurniturerecord.wordpress.com/

Designing a piece of furniture, or decorative item involves so many choices, options, when considering the construction methods. An open joint can be made half, or fully (double) blind, using veneers or a decorative covering board. It's far easier to create a half-blind joint using machines. I think doing them by hand tool is really messy and fussy. The finger (box) joint is designed for machine cutting. Why do by hand what Kreg can do by template? You can make the process even easier and probably stronger by cutting them as mitered combination joints, rather than the fussy lapped (blind) version.

I am sure I just added far more confusion. But....

[mdhills]

When I read this subject, I initially thought of some of the japanese cabinetry videos,
where they hide the joinery behind a miter joint.

But after rewatching, it looks like they do some simple dovetails, rather than box joints.
I was thinking that box joints could work also, but I am guessing that dovetails have the advantage of drawing the miter tight.


Matt

Example,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U98YYBeG...9A&index=9

[bandit571]

Well, the finger jointed box is currently drying.    First coat of Witch's Brew went on last night.    

So, I walked into the Blue BORG, and picked up a pair of 1 x 4 x 24" Poplar boards.    As soon as I can move the Finger Jointed Box out of the shop, I'll see about making a few  "Blind" Box Joints.     Might even wind up with another box build?

[bandit571]

Suppertime.....have half of one corner done......the other half will be a do-over.   yep, cut the wrong side of the lines.    Maybe after dinner, I might go down to the shop, and try again....

[Arlin Eastman]

Sorry, Arlin. I introduced dovetails because they are what we see and make as "half-blind" joints, not a 'half-blind finger joint. They are nearly the same joint--cut the same way. But, like Derek said in Bandit's post, "Why not do a dovetail, instead?" The dovetail is a stronger joint.

Yes, if we work at it, we can make any joint we want. [And, I see while I type, Bandit is already onto the problem.] The lapped portion--what makes the joint blind--is usually 1/3 to 1/4 the thickness of the face board; choosing the face to hide the joint. But, it can be whatever thickness. Your reference to a "rock solid" joint is only as good as the glue, and likely straps, keeping the panels together. Even a tight mechanical fit will shrink and swell into a loose one. And, as my 30-year-old house reminds me constantly (glued flooring) glue will fail eventually. Look at all the old furniture Firley records for his Furniture Record. The drawers are peppered with nail repairs. https://thefurniturerecord.wordpress.com/

Designing a piece of furniture, or decorative item involves so many choices, options, when considering the construction methods. An open joint can be made half, or fully (double) blind, using veneers or a decorative covering board. It's far easier to create a half-blind joint using machines. I think doing them by hand tool is really messy and fussy. The finger (box) joint is designed for machine cutting. Why do by hand what Kreg can do by template? You can make the process even easier and probably stronger by cutting them as mitered combination joints, rather than the fussy lapped (blind) version.

I am sure I just added far more confusion. But....

You did nothing wrong Bruce.

[Arlin Eastman]

   *Caution* Human at work

I guess you have to mark which side to do next time.  For me I just put a piece of tape on the side I do not want to cut, plane, trim, work on and so on since I can not do it with the tape in the way.

[bandit571]

Ok, Arlin, here you go...

Outside of the joint looks like a mitre joint..

   
and even the inside...

   
But, when I open it up, there is a surprise..

   
Was doing good, until I miss-cut the one part...

   
Cut out the good part, and left the waste?


Got out a second short piece, and did it all over again.   

Main thing was the beveled/mitred slopes......LOTS of saw and chisel work.  

Just hope the other three corners get better as I go along.......as this was a first time for me

[Arlin Eastman]

Well done bandit well done and I like it ALOT

For some reason I now remember seeing that joint before in a old woodworking book and will have to find it.

[bandit571]

The "mis-cut" end was re-cycled......and used to mark out for the other long side..

   
So, now I have 2 out of 4 corners done...

   
I guess I might as well do the other two corners, and build a box?   Box would be about...3" high, 6" wide, by 12" long.    Poplar.    Witch's Brew  loves Poplar, too. 

Crosscuts to cut the boards to length was by an old mitre box

   
A Stanley No. 358.   Still waiting on a pair of saws to come back from the Sharpener Service....

[GeorgeV]

Roy Underhill just had a show on half-blind dovetails. If I can find it, it should be online.

http://www.pbs.org/woodwrightsshop/proje...-dovetail/