Using dowels rather than nails/screws/staples

[jteneyck]

Hmm, I thought the OP was talking about using dowels to peg M&T joints; seems I was wrong.  OK, if you're talking about the use of dowels as the primary joinery, I almost never use them.  Chairs are a great example of everything that's wrong with dowels.  They do seem to work well for passage door joinery, but I find loose tenon joinery to be far more forgiving to mill.  That's the thing about hidden dowel joinery I've always hated.  The alignment of the holes has to be perfect, and if you are using several dowels in the joint every one of those holes has to be perfect.  The odds of that keeps increasing, seeming expotentially when I'm the guy trying to do it.  Loose tenons on the other hand have no such complication. 

About the only time I use dowels, besides pegged M&T joints, is to reinforce some drawer box joints.  I've built quite a few butt joined or rabbeted drawer joints where, after the initial glue up, I drill holes and glue in several dowels to reinforce the joint.  It's visually attractive as well. 

John

[Phil Thien]

I think that most people that aren't fans of dowels have struggled with poor doweling jigs combined with questionable technique.

My first jig was one of the self-centering units.  I made tons of stuff with it (back in the late 70's and early 80's), but also spent a considerable amount of time flushing-up joints because the drill guide wasn't really ever centered, and had a tendency to skew a little bit.

I tried various jigs over the years but after seeing a Krenov book and articles in FWW, I came to the conclusion that trying to use self-centering jigs was a waste of time, better to reference off a face.  I made jigs from wood and enjoyed amazing accuracy, if not so great durability.

Then I came up with a template method of doweling jigs.  This is a simply a steel spacer used as a drill bushing, inserted into a block of wood so it protrudes a tad.  The template is simply holes drilled in scrap.  I posted about that in a thread here at Woodnet:

https://www.forums.woodnet.net/showthrea...id=7328382

Absolutely anyone can make one of these (though having a drill press is sort of a necessity).  You get piston fits on your joints.  And if you're in production mode, you can use that single template to make a hole lot of joints, the steel spacer stands up to a lot of use.

I then adapted the same template-based concept to acrylic for a general-purpose jig, and I've been using that for a while.  I'm not a machinist but I'm getting better at cutting the acrylic templates to tight tolerances.  This has been a bit of a learning experience for me.

One the subject of strength and suitability of dowels, I often see people mention that dowels fail in chair joints and that M&T is therefor superior.  I've seen instances of doweled chair joints fail, sure.  I've also fixed a few M&T joints on chairs.  The thing to remember is that there is probably no more of a torture test for joints than the chair and the fact that millions of chairs have survived (using older, harder, more brittle glues than we use today) is actually a testimonial to dowels.

Tests conducted by magazines and the Woodgears site indicate that doweled joints are nearly as strong as M&T joints.  Let me put it like this: If your design relies on the minimal difference in strength between a doweled and M&T joint, you need to go back to the drawing board as you're working too near the margins.

And let's not forget that dowels have many advantages over other joinery methods.  For one, you can make joints with a jig and a cordless drill, no need for expensive and space-hogging machines.  Dowel joints go quickly, you can make all the joints for a table or small workbench in just fifteen minutes or so.  Dowels are nearly universally available (even home centers carry them).  And the process of drilling the holes doesn't create a tremendous amount of fine dust, just sweep when you're done and you're good.

[AwesomeOpossum74]

Lots to consider here! I'm relatively new to many concepts of woodworking, so I'll have to research some of the terminology. But from what you guys have said, I've decided need to look for other methods. I appreciate everyone's input, and education!

[MichaelMouse]

I think that most people that aren't fans of dowels have struggled with poor doweling jigs combined with questionable technique.

My first jig was one of the self-centering units.  I made tons of stuff with it (back in the late 70's and early 80's), but also spent a considerable amount of time flushing-up joints because the drill guide wasn't really ever centered, and had a tendency to skew a little bit.

I tried various jigs over the years but after seeing a Krenov book and articles in FWW, I came to the conclusion that trying to use self-centering
And let's not forget that dowels have many advantages over other joinery methods.  For one, you can make joints with a jig and a cordless drill, no need for expensive and space-hogging machines.  Dowel joints go quickly, you can make all the joints for a table or small workbench in just fifteen minutes or so.  Dowels are nearly universally available (even home centers carry them).  And the process of drilling the holes doesn't create a tremendous amount of fine dust, just sweep when you're done and you're good.

Using the same side of any so-called self-centering jig on the outside face is good practice.  Though I'll bet at least some of the flushing came from using less-than thickness-matched boards.  Ol' Roy is big on marking from the same face.

Dowels should be relieved to allow for air and glue to squeeze through.  If you buy pre-worked dowels of defined length, it's done for you.  If not, suggest a pair of slip-joint pliers to squeeze grooves into the dowel to accomplish the same. 

Check Hoadley for how to orient the dowel so it will move in unison, not in opposition to the boards if you are gluing.  Though most glues are reasonably flexible, it's a quick and easy way to tak that bit of care to keep things optimum.

Note that your biscuit joiner or similar references the same face when used according to directions. Also note the larger glue area, and I believe the study by FWW indicated it was an excellent, if quick, way of doing things overall.

[SteveS]

I used dowels for a Krenov cabinet project and wanted to replicate not only the design, but build process as well just for the experience. The dowels were used in the vertical to horizontal cabinet joints. Normally I don't use dowels as they are more of a pain than other joint types, even sliding dovetails, IMO.

[GeorgeV]

I must respectfully disagree, I have been using dowels for gluing up panels and stile to rail connections for all my woodworking years (in excess of 60 years) and had never had a joint failure.

[Steve N]

When I worked at ShopSmith we would demo the MK V in the horizontal boring machine mode, and frequently used dowels. I don't know of any of the sales guys, or Woodworking Academy guys who suggested them for strength in the joint, merely to help position the panel quickly, and efficiently so a caul was redundant feature on glue up .

My experience with "dowel jigs" is similar to what John talks about, cumbersome is a word, inaccurate is another. M&T joinery isn't that difficult, if it is and you do it a lot, or attempt to, then a Domino might be a good buy for you. Or if you want a LOT more flexibility talk to John about one of his Horizontal router tables, or make one if you are so inclined.

[Phil Thien]

My experience with "dowel jigs" is similar to what John talks about, cumbersome is a word, inaccurate is another. M&T joinery isn't that difficult, if it is and you do it a lot, or attempt to, then a Domino might be a good buy for you. Or if you want a LOT more flexibility talk to John about one of his Horizontal router tables, or make one if you are so inclined.

That is just a matter of an inferior jig.  Most people buy a $50 jig that sucks, and walk away thinking doweling sucks.

Good jigs = precise alignment (to within thousandths) and incredible speed.

By the time someone sets up their dedicated mortiser and makes a few test cuts, I'll be done with all the dowel holes.