DT chisels

[Derek Cohen]

Hi Archie

I suspect that the O1 from Veritas may have performed a little better than the Stanleys as they appear to me to have slightly harder steel. I really should have included them at the time.

It is important to emphasise that there are many factors involved here. Results need to have a context, and this can be difficult to judge. For example, not all O1 steels are heat treated the same. Generalising from one to another make is not reliable. An example is the Koyamaichi - they are O1/HCS, of course, but the cutting layer is very hard.

The other factor is that ergonomics are as important, perhaps more so, than edge retention. Chisels, such as the Veritas, are designed to be both struck with a mallet as well as pushed by hand. Blue Spruce are wonderful in the hand (the best!), but the blades are thin and they are not the best at being struck. Koyamaichi are designed to be struck with a gennou.  It comes down to how you prefer to work. For this reason, one may have more than one type of chisel.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Arch_E]

Thank you, Derek.

So far, I've avoided Japanese chisels primarily because I prefer Imperial over Metric. Having got a Japanese set virtually for free when I bought a some used equipment from a retiring wood turner, has started me reevaluating my bias. His were well broken in...and sharp. Their ease of use, especially with the hoops, surprised me--oh, and that they are made for a hammer not a palm. So far, I can justify owning at least four sets of chisels since that's how many grandsons I have.


Appreciate (and admire) your work and wisdom,

Archie

[Mike Brady]

It appears my short list was indeed too short.  I stupidly forgot to include Blue Spruce as a candidate for consideration.  They are superb, I'm sure.  

Sometimes when I am just making dovetails for fun or practice, I use a set of Aldi chisels, ala Paul Sellers.  These have very thin blades if not the sharp arrises of the very best chisels.  

You mentioned vintage Stanley chisels.  They have perhaps the worst profile for dovetailing of any chisel I have used.  Many of my vintage chisels are better, but they would all need to be reground to a better profile.  Doing that regrinding is not for everyone.  I'm sure Derek's are lovely, but hand grinding those bevels and getting a good result is not going to have a happy ending for many of us.

[Derek Cohen]

Mike, my set of 750s are not the way Stanley made them. I ground the lands down and turned new handles. I find the original handles too short to use for paring.



It is something anyone can do - collect a few chisels and modify them as I did. An inexpensive way of building a dovetailing set.

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Steve N]

Derek, that would be one of those different strokes for different folks things. I like the original Stanleys much better than the LN clonies, but what I really love are the Stanley Stubbies. I can palm them, and steer them where I want them, probably not officially paring, but it gets it done around tight areas.  

I have fairly large mitts though.





IIRC these are #60's

[Arch_E]

If I'm not mistaken, those are Everlast Chisels, and they are quite good (and pricey). I've got an acquaintance who collects them.

[Derek Cohen]

Derek, that would be one of those different strokes for different folks things. 

Hi Steve,  your comment suggests tha you are looking at the handles ..... look at the blades, specifically the lands. My comment is really directed at them, since Archie commented that his were too thick. Mine were as well ... originally ..



Regads from Perth

Derek

[Handplanesandmore]

I am more convinced than ever that your Narex chisels are just fine for cutting dovetails, because that is the Narex set I have used to cut countless D.T.s (though I have other finer chisels to turn to if I want to).

It's a usage issue. not a design matter with the lands. You simply angle the chisel to use its sharp corners get into the tight corners or sides. Many skilled woodworkers from Ian Kirby to Paul Sellers to Frank Klausz have shown using ordinary bench chisels (with lands) alone to cut fine dovetails of all kinds. Rob Cosman does promote the use of a skew chisel to clean up the debris, but I have seen him live at a tradeshow cutting everything without it. So it is a nice-to-have piece, not an essential tool for your work. You can even easily grind and make one for yourself.

It is fine if you want to get all the nice chisels to do your dovetail work, but do know that what you have can do the same job well.

Simon

[Derek Cohen]

You simply angle the chisel to use its sharp corners get into the tight corners or sides.

In my experience, those who offer this advise do not cut narrow tails (e.g. with a baseline of about 1/8" and "London" tips). It is simply impossible to clear the waste from a tail without a smaller chisel. What is smaller than 1/8"? The answer is either 1/16" (which is impractical) or a well-fitted chisel. Or only make wide dovetails, where you can skew the chisel.

When clearing half-blind pins, one does not need a chisel with minimal lands .. if you also have a skew or other chisel to reach into the corners of the socket. 

Regards from Perth

Derek

[Handplanesandmore]

You simply angle the chisel to use its sharp corners get into the tight corners or sides.

In my experience, those who offer this advise do not cut narrow tails (e.g. with a baseline of about 1/8" and "London" tips).

Regards from Perth

Derek

No, I don't do the London style dovetails. as you rightly pointed out. Small scale work of course requires a different set of tools, including sometimes the Veritas mini- tools. The OP, if I recall correctly, does not specify very narrow style of dovetails. If his work is general dovetails, my advice still works well -- very well, in fact. But I am not discouraging him or anyone not to get tools much finer than the Narex chisels. My point is, with proper use, they can do dovetails despite their lands.

Simon