Class Action Stupidity

[ruffcutt]

Lowe's already lost a similar lawsuit about 3 years ago.

http://threepercenternation.com/2014/09/...-labeling/#


In manufacturing, a nominal size or trade size is a size “in name only” used for identification. The nominal size may not match any dimension of the product, but within the domain of that product the nominal size may correspond to a large number of highly standardized dimensions and tolerances.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nominal_size

[EricU]

make people sign a release with every dimensioned lumber purchase that they understand trade standard nominal dimensions.  

If they don't put units on the signs, does that get them off the hook?  In fact, I don't thihk they always have units on the 2x4 part.

[ruffcutt]

make people sign a release with every dimensioned lumber purchase that they understand trade standard nominal dimensions.  

If they don't put units on the signs, does that get them off the hook?  In fact, I don't thihk they always have units on the 2x4 part.

Where do you stop. Lumber is only one of hundreds of item with nominal dimensions.

[Steve N]

Lowe's already lost a similar lawsuit about 3 years ago.

http://threepercenternation.com/2014/09/...-labeling/#


In manufacturing, a nominal size or trade size is a size “in name only” used for identification. The nominal size may not match any dimension of the product, but within the domain of that product the nominal size may correspond to a large number of highly standardized dimensions and tolerances.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nominal_size

Citing a case from California, which likely will be easily reversed in an upper court probably isn't anywhere near where the end game will be on this. Just costs the consumer more, because somebody has to pay the Lowes Lawbirds.

[sawdust703]

This is all true. I live in NW Kansas. The closet Lowe's or HD to us is in Greeley, Co. And in our little biased farming community here of 1300 folks, we do have a lumber store, pricey, but it's here.
As a small wood business owner, 90% of my work is scroll saw work, light furniture repair, lathe work, picture frames, etc. VERY SELDOM do I buy lumber from our home town yard because not only do I have other things to do besides glue knots back in place in their "dimensional" lumber when a customer requests it, but I am yet to learn how to untwist a twisted piece of over priced lumber? Which brings me to my next point.
Not but about a 30 minutes drive from my house to the NE, is another local lumber store. Not the friendliest folks, But the manager of this lumber store takes very good care of his lumber. It's clean, Straight & dry, real close to full dimension lumber. His prices are reasonable, & they even load the lumber for you!! Here at home, they show where whatever you're for lookin' is, make smart mouth remark about you not knowin' s*** about wood because you're not a contractor, & you find your lumber & load it.
I also purchase most of my hardwood from this fella in Nebraska. It's dry, planed, nice wide, flat raw lumber. That's what I work w/the most.
Now, if we're forced to go Greeley to have a tea party w/ my back surgeon, &  hear him tell me about OLD truck drivers having lots of back problems?R E A L L Y?!? After two major back surgeries, & more to go, & you're just now tellin' me this? Took the fire right of me. So, in front of him, I looked at my wife & said "after 35 years of OTR truckin', & bein' in every state in the country, ya reckon this broken down ol' truck driver could "POSSIBLY, SOMEHOW, get us out of this darn Sawbones office & to Home Depot?" She said " I just don't honey. Wheel chairs ain't got gear shifts or jake brakes!" And out the door we went to HD.
I needed some things in larger quantities than what we can get here, so my bride grabs a cart, & we go to the finish department, pick up our things. Screws, some hinges, saw blades, then we wind up in the wood department. I'm not good with matchin' colors, so I let Mrs. Boss take care of that. I look for flat, straight, dry wood that will catch the eye of beholder.
We came up on a stack of red 2 x 4's, as the boss called them. She was sayin' how perty they looked & smelled, & we could make this project, & that, as the story goes, I finally found a trained monkey in an orange apron. I asked him how long they'd had the bundle, & if he knew the moisture content of them. He said they just got them in the day before, & he'd find somebody that knew about the moisture. The reason I had asked him about it is because these 2 x 4's measured 1 7/8" x 3 7/8" x 10'. And I couldn't leave much of a thumb nail mark.
Well, finally our trained monkey showed & told us his boss told him the paper work said they were dried to construction specs. Well ok then. We took 10 of them, went to look for some beetle kill pine to refurbish our stock. They told us it is now a seasonal wood. Mary Ann was instant mad! They never know when they're gettin' it. By this time, my bride was fumin'! I was tryin' to get her out of there before she took a shot at somebody, pay my bill, & have a 4 way conversation, too!
So we finally get to her brothers' place there in Greeley, & she takes him out to the pick up to show him our meager belongings from HD, goin' on about how straight & perty the wood is & all. All at once, I seen him give her this look, & told us to come in the garage. He showed us 6 2 x 4's & 2 pcs of 1" square stock he bought from lowes just the day before. The 1x's were so twisted they were firewood, & the 2 x 4's had curved up on the ends, twisted in the center, & measured 1 1/2" x 3 3 3/8". Now explain that. How can there be so much difference? That ain't even close to code! my apologies for the long winded rant, but this whole wood situation is gettin' to be about who can put out highest priced junk wood just to see if we're dumb enough to buy it!!!!

[JGrout]

How can there be so much difference?  as I said earlier not everyone is adhering to the guidelines ( not rules,  guidelines) so 

 buyer beware

I am not sure what code you might be referring to, and again if you know what you need and the spec required why make a fuss............. go someplace else.   

JMO

[Steve N]

I guess to be absolutely sure Admiral would have to weigh back in, maybe I've totally missed the point of where the thread is headed?

This is the beginning of the post that started it. At least what was linked to.......

"MILWAUKEE — Two home improvements stores are accused of deceiving the buyers of four-by-four boards, the big brother to the ubiquitous two-by-four.

The alleged deception: Menards and Home Depot (HD) market and sell the hefty lumber as four-by-fours without specifying that the boards actually measure 3½ inches by 3½ inches."

Now again I may be all wet, but the thread started out talking about DIMENSIONAL/NOMINAL SIZED lumber IE: pine, fir, spruce. Dem trees wid needles on em.... and how Lowes and HD were pulling the wool over our eyes by saying the same thing they been saying, hey wait a minute......... "they" have been saying it since before they (HD, Lowes) were in business. Lowes started in 1946, and HD since 1978. Looks like it was around 1924 when the standard for 2x4 type Lumber came around, which is earlier than I had thought.

For anyone who thought a 2x4 was actually 2" x 4" It even goes into the "standards" for hardwood, depending on how many surfaces were milled. Bought rough most of the time hardwood is sold by quarters, with 4/4 being an inch thick, typically a "good" seller will sell you a thickness that after milling will yield somewhere from 13/16 to a full 1" I think this is where Joe is saying buyer beware. If you buy where they use the standard you are getting shorted wood, unless of course their price is sooooooo low, we know that isn't happening.

[jgourlay]

This really made me smile.  My first engineering role outside of college saw me having to design a large complex crate without the benefit of ever touching wood that wasn't for the fire.  I designed.  The shop built and life was good, until....

The 'tolerance stack' from 2" --> 1.5", and from 4"-->3.5" meant that (on a super urgent Saturday afternoon), the equipment (which shoulda shipped last Thursday), was too big for the crate by about 2" all around.

Once my  boss and I figured out the titanic scale of my ignorance, he was so confounded he couldn't even choke out 'you're fired'.  I wanted to simply jump off a bridge.  I can smile about it now...

[EricU]

one of the faculty says our machinist is teaching the students bad habits because he would catch something like that. 


The Borgs could do like dell after they lost too many monitor size lawsuits.  Now they say something is "24 inch class"

[Gary G™]

The lumber I see at Lowe's has 3-1/2" X 3-1/2" X 8' (10, 12, ...) on the end along with the barcode.
An 8' board is always at least 96".
I sue when they're 97" for making me carry the extra weight.