Water Line Leak
#11
  
So we got are water bill and it was way high - usage was almost triple of previous billing cycles.  Called the plumber and they determined that there was a leak between the meter and the house.  They basically turned off the water at the house main and the meter was still running.

The meter is roughly 100 feet from the house and goes through a highly landscaped area, under a stone wall and under a sidewalk.  YIKES  Big Grin.  There is no ground water indiction of a leak so it would be very difficult to determine where it is - according to the plumbers.  This property is located in north central NC - the plumbers indicated that the water line is likely not copper as they typically would have used a plastic (?) type of water line material when the house was built in 1997.   They suggestd that even of the leak were found and repaired there was some possibility that more leaks would occur - they are speculating that the leak was the result of age.

There suggestion was a new line that ran around the landscaped area and wall.  So my first question is - does it make sense to abandon the existing line and go new - they would use PEX.

Thanks

Rick
Rick

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#12
  Re: Water Line Leak by Rick_B (So we got are water ...)
(09-28-2017, 08:30 AM)Rick_B Wrote: So we got are water bill and it was way high - usage was almost triple of previous billing cycles.  Called the plumber and they determined that there was a leak between the meter and the house.  They basically turned off the water at the house main and the meter was still running.

The meter is roughly 100 feet from the house and goes through a highly landscaped area, under a stone wall and under a sidewalk.  YIKES  Big Grin.  There is no ground water indiction of a leak so it would be very difficult to determine where it is - according to the plumbers.  This property is located in north central NC - the plumbers indicated that the water line is likely not copper as they typically would have used a plastic (?) type of water line material when the house was built in 1997.   They suggestd that even of the leak were found and repaired there was some possibility that more leaks would occur - they are speculating that the leak was the result of age.

There suggestion was a new line that ran around the landscaped area and wall.  So my first question is - does it make sense to abandon the existing line and go new - they would use PEX.

Thanks

Rick

If the area to be disturbed is not easily repairable as you indicate and you have the room to go around the area do it. cost of the landscaping should be considered  as part of your cost if you followed the original line
Let us not seek the Republican Answer , or the Democratic answer. Let us not seek to fix the blame for the past. Let us accept our own responsibility for the future  John F. Kennedy 



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#13
  Re: Water Line Leak by Rick_B (So we got are water ...)
(09-28-2017, 08:30 AM)Rick_B Wrote: So we got are water bill and it was way high - usage was almost triple of previous billing cycles.  Called the plumber and they determined that there was a leak between the meter and the house.  They basically turned off the water at the house main and the meter was still running.

The meter is roughly 100 feet from the house and goes through a highly landscaped area, under a stone wall and under a sidewalk.  YIKES  Big Grin.  There is no ground water indiction of a leak so it would be very difficult to determine where it is - according to the plumbers.  This property is located in north central NC - the plumbers indicated that the water line is likely not copper as they typically would have used a plastic (?) type of water line material when the house was built in 1997.   They suggestd that even of the leak were found and repaired there was some possibility that more leaks would occur - they are speculating that the leak was the result of age.

There suggestion was a new line that ran around the landscaped area and wall.  So my first question is - does it make sense to abandon the existing line and go new - they would use PEX.

Thanks

Rick
We must be lucky...our meter is inside the house. That being said, we (homeowner) are still responsible for all piping/repairs from the curbstop to and inside our house...
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#14
  Re: RE: Water Line Leak by JGrout ([quote='Rick_B' pid=...)
(09-28-2017, 09:33 AM)JGrout Wrote: If the area to be disturbed is not easily repairable as you indicate and you have the room to go around the area do it. cost of the landscaping should be considered  as part of your cost if you followed the original line

Good point Joe - I hadn't even considered that - I was more concerned with ongoing issues with the old line even if it was repaired.  Disturbing the area where the current line runs would likely result in the loss of a mature tree and several shrubs as well as it is on a rise that would likely require going much deeper in that area (2 to 3 feet extra I'm estimating).  The propsed route avoids all landscaping and goes around the rise in the land.  I think I'm answering my own question.

Regarding cost - there is some indication that the local water authority will assist with repair cost but nothing definitive at this point.  Our sewer charge is based on water usage (what goes in comes back out and needs to be treated) however, I will make the argument that some credit for sewer is indicated because a lot of the water usage went into the ground and did not require sewer treatment.  Sewer costs are roughly 50% of total charges.

One question I have is the use of PEX - would copper be a better alternative in terms of life - clearly going to be more expensive.

Rick
Rick

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#15
  Re: Water Line Leak by Rick_B (So we got are water ...)
PEX has a 30 plus year record of suitability to nearly all contaminants. UV light is the worst but underground that is irrelevant. Most municipalities are switching to PEX for service piping. Bed it with sand and no rocks it should last a very long time.
Blackhat
Common decency is as rare as common sense. I figure there was only a finite amount of both made and its getting shared out among too many folks.


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#16
  Re: RE: Water Line Leak by blackhat (PEX has a 30 plus ye...)
(09-28-2017, 12:12 PM)blackhat Wrote: PEX has a 30 plus year record of suitability to nearly all contaminants. UV light is the worst but underground that is irrelevant. Most municipalities are switching to PEX for service piping. Bed it with sand and no rocks it should last a very long time.

Thanks for that info.  The "big dog" plumber came today to give an estimate.  He had two options - reroute a new line to avoid landscape areas as much as possible - 20 feet or so of hand digging (18" deep).  Cost for that - $2500 - I thought that was pretty good - I was actually thinking twice that.  The other option was a new technique (new to him) that involved essentially running a cutter head through the existing pipe that, when pulled back, cut the existing line and pulled a new line through it.  That would likely be $1000 cheaper.  He was upfront saying that he had never done it and that there were some variables involved like bends and couplings.  I chose to go with the conventional method.

Rick
Rick

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#17
  Re: RE: Water Line Leak by Rick_B ([quote='blackhat' pi...)
(09-28-2017, 01:04 PM)Rick_B Wrote: Thanks for that info.  The "big dog" plumber came today to give an estimate.  He had two options - reroute a new line to avoid landscape areas as much as possible - 20 feet or so of hand digging (18" deep).  Cost for that - $2500 - I thought that was pretty good - I was actually thinking twice that.  The other option was a new technique (new to him) that involved essentially running a cutter head through the existing pipe that, when pulled back, cut the existing line and pulled a new line through it.  That would likely be $1000 cheaper.  He was upfront saying that he had never done it and that there were some variables involved like bends and couplings.  I chose to go with the conventional method.

Rick

I am sure your plumber is more than aware of the depth of bury...Here in PA best to stay at least 36" below grade, due to frost concerns...
The local gas company used my existing steel gas line as a sleeve/conduit for the new plastic line last year...virtually no digging except for the pit at the street and the meter at the house...
Hope it all works out...
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#18
  Re: Water Line Leak by Rick_B (So we got are water ...)
3'. That's for amateurs. Normal frost depth here is 7' and lots of times it can reach 10'.

Yes
Blackhat
Common decency is as rare as common sense. I figure there was only a finite amount of both made and its getting shared out among too many folks.


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#19
  Re: RE: Water Line Leak by blackhat (3'. That's for amate...)
(09-28-2017, 03:12 PM)blackhat Wrote: 3'. That's for amateurs. Normal frost depth here is 7' and lots of times it can reach 10'.

Yes

I am used to 4' when we lived in upstate NY - here in NC depth is 18".  I forgot to mention this is roughly 120' of new line.

Rick
Rick

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#20
  Re: RE: Water Line Leak by Rick_B ([quote='blackhat' pi...)
I would put in a new line.  Chances are a root is lifting the pipe and likely to happen again.

Plus, finding that leak......
Everything is a prototype so its a one of a kind.
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