Popping grain/figure without deepening the color
#21
  Re: RE: Popping grain/figure without deepening the color by Wildwood (Know BLO is highly r...)
(12-17-2017, 09:11 AM)Wildwood Wrote: Know BLO is highly recommended but not a big fan of using it.  Pure Tung oil is an excellent choice if have the patience waiting for it to dry, takes several coats to reach maximum protection.

JMHO, yes my way little more expensive but reults justify the cost.
Prefer to use 6 or 7 drops of amber trans tint dye in Zinsser Seal Coat shellac sanding with 220/320 between coats, then apply your water based poly.

I'll look more into Tung Oil. I also saw someone use an oil-based topcoat (specifically General Arm-r Seal) last night in a video to pop the grain on quilted maple. Looked FANTASTIC! I'll try a test piece with Minwax's Oil Based Poly to see if that does the same thing since I already have some of that. Either way I'd like to use water-based on top, especially with how cold it's been getting. Oil-based just cures FAR too slowly.
Near future projects:

-Curly Maple display case
-Jatoba and Quilted Maple dresser
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#22
  Re: RE: Popping grain/figure without deepening the color by KingwoodFan1989 ([quote='Wildwood' pi...)
(12-17-2017, 02:25 PM)KingwoodFan1989 Wrote: I'll look more into Tung Oil. I also saw someone use an oil-based topcoat (specifically General Arm-r Seal) last night in a video to pop the grain on quilted maple. Looked FANTASTIC! I'll try a test piece with Minwax's Oil Based Poly to see if that does the same thing since I already have some of that. Either way I'd like to use water-based on top, especially with how cold it's been getting. Oil-based just cures FAR too slowly.

Tru-Oil dries quickly, is easy to use and is beautiful.
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#23
  Re: RE: Popping grain/figure without deepening the color by BassMD ([quote='KingwoodFan1...)
(12-17-2017, 04:08 PM)BassMD Wrote: Tru-Oil dries quickly, is easy to use and is beautiful.

Is that Tung Oil? If so, could you post a link? Thanks!
Near future projects:

-Curly Maple display case
-Jatoba and Quilted Maple dresser
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#24
  Re: RE: Popping grain/figure without deepening the color by KingwoodFan1989 ([quote='BassMD' pid=...)
(12-17-2017, 04:51 PM)KingwoodFan1989 Wrote: Is that Tung Oil? If so, could you post a link? Thanks!

Tru-oil link -
https://www.birchwoodcasey.com/Refinishi...inish.aspx

Not tung oil I think.  The web site is pretty light on information, but they do say, "Unique blend of linseed and natural oils dries fast and will not cloud, yellow or crack with age."  I've used it and like it, but I don't know if it enhances the grain the way you'd like.  It is easy to find and comes in small sizes that don't cost an arm and a leg.  I'd suggest getting some and give it a try to see if it meets your needs.  A decent gun shop and some big box stores should carry it or in a bind you could mail order it.
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#25
  Re: RE: Popping grain/figure without deepening the color by Phil S. ([quote='KingwoodFan1...)
(12-17-2017, 11:34 PM)Phil S. Wrote: Tru-oil link -
https://www.birchwoodcasey.com/Refinishi...inish.aspx

Not tung oil I think.  The web site is pretty light on information, but they do say, "Unique blend of linseed and natural oils dries fast and will not cloud, yellow or crack with age."  I've used it and like it, but I don't know if it enhances the grain the way you'd like.  It is easy to find and comes in small sizes that don't cost an arm and a leg.  I'd suggest getting some and give it a try to see if it meets your needs.  A decent gun shop and some big box stores should carry it or in a bind you could mail order it.

Another thing I'm concerned about is blotching. Although it's nothing terrible, the small test piece I used seemed to blotch a bit. I'm re-flattening a couple of larger offcuts of the veneer and I'm gonna glue it to some cheaper plywood...then I'll do some more experimenting with the finishes. Not sure if I'll try this stuff, but I'll keep it in mind. John's earlier post of the curly maple with Arm-r Seal looks like it does a good job, and a fair bit of enhancement seemed to be there when I tried Minwax's Gloss Poly (solvent based) on my small piece. I need to see how it looks on a bigger piece first so I can see if it causes any major blotching.
Near future projects:

-Curly Maple display case
-Jatoba and Quilted Maple dresser
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#26
  Re: RE: Popping grain/figure without deepening the color by KingwoodFan1989 ([quote='Phil S.' pid...)
(12-16-2017, 09:10 PM)KingwoodFan1989 Wrote: I guess I'll try experimenting with some lighter yellows/golds. Would Tung Oil maybe do what I want? Again, I want to add as little color as possible while still popping the grain. Do multiple coats of oil bring out the figure more?

(12-18-2017, 01:38 AM)KingwoodFan1989 Wrote: Another thing I'm concerned about is blotching. Although it's nothing terrible, the small test piece I used seemed to blotch a bit. I'm re-flattening a couple of larger offcuts of the veneer and I'm gonna glue it to some cheaper plywood...then I'll do some more experimenting with the finishes. Not sure if I'll try this stuff, but I'll keep it in mind. John's earlier post of the curly maple with Arm-r Seal looks like it does a good job, and a fair bit of enhancement seemed to be there when I tried Minwax's Gloss Poly (solvent based) on my small piece. I need to see how it looks on a bigger piece first so I can see if it causes any major blotching.


Popping the grain and blotching are caused by the same thing, irregular grain.  Oils do that better than most other products, far better than WB products.  What I'm saying is you can't have your cake and eat it, too.  The best you can do is to sand really fine, like 320 or 400 grit.  That will minimize the ugly blotching, though not necessarily completely eliminate it.  A coat of 1# Sealcoat shellac will help reduce any blotching further, then apply whatever oil finish you like.  Arm-R-Seal is the lightest colored one I've found.  

Personally, I'd never use BLO on maple.  

John  

John
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#27
  Re: Popping grain/figure without deepening the color by KingwoodFan1989 (I may be asking the ...)
I just went through this test on birdseye maple. I also wanted the least amount of coloring. I tried 5 different finishes. Tung oil gave the least amount of color. Tru-oil was going to be my next test but I was happy with tung oil.

I sanded the wood to 400 grit and laid on two heavy soaking coats, a then a third, fourth coat was wet sanded with 1200 grit. I'm going to let that cure for a couple days and evaluate my next steps. 

I'm thinking about a buffed wax finish but need to do some more research.
Mark

I'm no expert, unlike everybody else here - Busdrver


Nah...I like you, young feller...You remind me of my son... Timberwolf 03/27/12

Here's a fact: Benghazi is a Pub Legend... CharlieD 04/19/15

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#28
  Re: Popping grain/figure without deepening the color by KingwoodFan1989 (I may be asking the ...)
(12-18-2017, 10:59 AM)jteneyck Wrote:   Arm-R-Seal is the lightest colored one I've found.  


John  

John

John, have you ever used P&L 38? I ask because it's a very light oil based varnish (soya oil/alkyd resin) that I use becaue of its light color....just wondering how t's compares (in color) to the Arm R Seal.
I started with absolutely nothing. Now, thanks to years of hard work, careful planning, and perseverance, I find I still have most of it left.
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#29
  Re: RE: Popping grain/figure without deepening the color by fredhargis ([quote='jteneyck' pi...)
(12-18-2017, 12:26 PM)fredhargis Wrote: John, have you ever used P&L 38? I ask because it's a very light oil based varnish (soya oil/alkyd resin) that I use becaue of its light color....just wondering how t's compares (in color) to the Arm R Seal.

No, sorry Fred, I have not, but I saw a post somewhere where someone had done a comparison.  IIRC, Waterlox was the darkest (of which I am sure), P&38 was lighter, and ARS was the lightest.  IIRC.  And I think that makes sense because phenolic resin (Waterlox) is dark, alkyd resin (P&L 38) is lighter, and urethane resins (ARS) are lighter still.  

John
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#30
  Re: RE: Popping grain/figure without deepening the color by jteneyck ([quote='KingwoodFan1...)
(12-18-2017, 10:59 AM)jteneyck Wrote: Popping the grain and blotching are caused by the same thing, irregular grain.  Oils do that better than most other products, far better than WB products.  What I'm saying is you can't have your cake and eat it, too.  The best you can do is to sand really fine, like 320 or 400 grit.  That will minimize the ugly blotching, though not necessarily completely eliminate it.  A coat of 1# Sealcoat shellac will help reduce any blotching further, then apply whatever oil finish you like.  Arm-R-Seal is the lightest colored one I've found.  

Personally, I'd never use BLO on maple.  

John  

John

Are there any blotch control products you'd recommend? I watched a video about Charles Neil's blotch control...seems to work well, although it also seems, in my opinion, to diminish the popping of the grain a little bit. I'll try sanding to higher grits on my next test piece and see what the results are. I have some shellac, although it's not de-waxed like Sealcoat. However, since it's only a test piece, I'm sure it'll work fine. If I like the results, I'll get some Sealcoat so I can topcoat it with Polycrylic. I'll also, like I said before, try an oil-based poly (I have Minwax, not General Finishes) on another part of the test piece and compare.
Near future projects:

-Curly Maple display case
-Jatoba and Quilted Maple dresser
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