Japanese hand saws
#10
  
Been away for a while, but glad to be back.  Up until now, I have done all of my joinery cutting with western style hand saws.  I will admit, I need some more hands on practice to consider myself a good sawyer, but I'm working on it Smile    Recently, I have been reading and watching many videos on Japanese hand saws, and decided to give it a try.  I ordered the Gyokucho 372 Dotsuki, and I am not disappointed.  It did take some practice, but I find that I am more comfortable sawing joinery with the saw, and I find less "saw drift" compared to my western saws.  I am sure the saw drift is probably my lack of skill mastering the western saws, but I was surprised how straight I was able to cut with the Dotsuki.  I am not ready to sell the western saws by any account, but I guess it is nice to step out of the box once in a while, and give something different a try.  

Scott
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#11
  Re: Japanese hand saws by Smoothjazz077 (Been away for a whil...)
Scott,  glad you posted.   I started using Japanese saws quite some time ago and love them.   They take  a little getting used to, but once you do, they work great.  I think some have a poor impression because there are some Japanese saws that are very cheaply made, but once you get above that standard, you can get some very good quality saws at a great price.
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#12
  Re: Japanese hand saws by Smoothjazz077 (Been away for a whil...)
(02-14-2018, 05:32 PM)Smoothjazz077 Wrote: Been away for a while, but glad to be back.  Up until now, I have done all of my joinery cutting with western style hand saws.  I will admit, I need some more hands on practice to consider myself a good sawyer, but I'm working on it Smile    Recently, I have been reading and watching many videos on Japanese hand saws, and decided to give it a try.  I ordered the Gyokucho 372 Dotsuki, and I am not disappointed.  It did take some practice, but I find that I am more comfortable sawing joinery with the saw, and I find less "saw drift" compared to my western saws.  I am sure the saw drift is probably my lack of skill mastering the western saws, but I was surprised how straight I was able to cut with the Dotsuki.  I am not ready to sell the western saws by any account, but I guess it is nice to step out of the box once in a while, and give something different a try.  

Scott
,,,,,,,
When your japanese saw gets dull, as it will, no matter what you paid for it, you will understand and appreciate the popularity of American saws. DAHIKT... Big Grin
The Marines I have seen around the world have the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank God for the United States Marine Corps!
Eleanor Roosevelt


Jack Edgar, Sgt. USMC Korea 51/52
Get off my lawn ! Upset





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#13
  Re: Japanese hand saws by Smoothjazz077 (Been away for a whil...)
Saw drift can be caused by several things.  Too much set will allow any tilting of the saw to favor one side over another if you tilt the saw during your stroke.  The teeth might need stoning (light stroke with a sharpening stone or diamond stone on the side that cuts more aggressively).  Poor sharpening might be another cause.

There are Japanese saws out there that can be sharpened.  (Timberwolf's post might be misinterpreted that you can't sharpen a Japanese saw.)  The more commonly available Japanese saws have induction hardened teeth that can't be sharpened.  You just replace the blade.  The Japanese saws that can be sharpened tend to be very high quality saws and require a feather file to sharpen.  For anything but a pure rip saw, the tooth shape on Japanese saws requires a higher skill set than most woodworkers possess.  Wilbur Pan - a WoodNet member - would tell you that you just need more practice to master sharpening Japanese saws.  Schtoo (Stu Tierney, Tools From Japan) - used to be a WN member - last post was 2013 - would agree.
Still Learning,

Allan Hill
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#14
  Re: RE: Japanese hand saws by AHill (Saw drift can be cau...)
(02-15-2018, 10:22 AM)AHill Wrote: Saw drift can be caused by several things.  Too much set will allow any tilting of the saw to favor one side over another if you tilt the saw during your stroke.  The teeth might need stoning (light stroke with a sharpening stone or diamond stone on the side that cuts more aggressively).  Poor sharpening might be another cause.

There are Japanese saws out there that can be sharpened.  (Timberwolf's post might be misinterpreted that you can't sharpen a Japanese saw.)  The more commonly available Japanese saws have induction hardened teeth that can't be sharpened.  You just replace the blade.  The Japanese saws that can be sharpened tend to be very high quality saws and require a feather file to sharpen.  For anything but a pure rip saw, the tooth shape on Japanese saws requires a higher skill set than most woodworkers possess.  Wilbur Pan - a WoodNet member - would tell you that you just need more practice to master sharpening Japanese saws.  Schtoo (Stu Tierney, Tools From Japan) - used to be a WN member - last post was 2013 - would agree.

Just to add a little to what has been mentioned..... A western style saw can cut accurately but only if the teeth are filed and set to match the type of wood you are sawing. Western saws come with so many variances, regarding blade sizes, lengths, tooth sizes, point counts, and rake and fleam angles, it is nearly impossible to comment with any consistency when discussing western saws in general.
Catchalater,
Marv


I did then what I knew how to do. Now that I know better, I do better.”
― Maya Angelou

I'm working toward my PHD.  (Projects Half Done)
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#15
  Re: RE: Japanese hand saws by MarvW ([quote='AHill' pid='...)
(02-15-2018, 01:09 PM)MarvW Wrote: Just to add a little to what has been mentioned..... A western style saw can cut accurately but only if the teeth are filed and set to match the type of wood you are sawing. Western saws come with so many variances, regarding blade sizes, lengths, tooth sizes, point counts, and rake and fleam angles, it is nearly impossible to comment with any consistency when discussing western saws in general.
.
Hi Marv...long time no see..Good to see you posting again and hope you keep it up....I always enjoyed your posts...

My experience with quality japanese saws is limited to one..... Crazy ..It was used and in good condition but not as sharp as it could be..So I bought a new feather file, thinking I would just touch up the shiny spots...That did not end well...the saw was harder than the $15.00 file!!!!! Upset Upset ..Now when one of my cheap ones gets dull, I make a scraper out of it..... Crazy Big Grin
The Marines I have seen around the world have the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank God for the United States Marine Corps!
Eleanor Roosevelt


Jack Edgar, Sgt. USMC Korea 51/52
Get off my lawn ! Upset





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#16
  Re: RE: Japanese hand saws by Timberwolf ([quote='MarvW' pid='...)
(02-15-2018, 11:19 PM)Timberwolf Wrote: .
Hi Marv...long time no see..Good to see you posting again and hope you keep it up....I always enjoyed your posts...

My experience with quality japanese saws is limited to one..... Crazy ..It was used and in good condition but not as sharp as it could be..So I bought a new feather file, thinking I would just touch up the shiny spots...That did not end well...the saw was harder than the $15.00 file!!!!! Upset  Upset ..Now when one of my cheap ones gets dull, I make a scraper out of it..... Crazy  Big Grin

Since the Japanese saw was relatively cheap, I am not too concerned if the blade dulls over time.  It was more of a curiosity thing to try one of the saws, and I was surprised by the results.  As I mentioned, I still use my current saws, and I am sure with more practice I will develop a better technique to saw consistently straight.  My current saws have all been sharpened professionally, and the blades are straight, so again, the sawing inconsistently is just my learning curve.
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#17
  Re: RE: Japanese hand saws by Smoothjazz077 ([quote='Timberwolf' ...)
(02-16-2018, 10:27 AM)Smoothjazz077 Wrote: Since the Japanese saw was relatively cheap, I am not too concerned if the blade dulls over time.  It was more of a curiosity thing to try one of the saws, and I was surprised by the results.  As I mentioned, I still use my current saws, and I am sure with more practice I will develop a better technique to saw consistently straight.  My current saws have all been sharpened professionally, and the blades are straight, so again, the sawing inconsistently is just my learning curve.
...........
When they are sharp, they are a joy to use, that's for sure!!!!!!!!! Yes
The Marines I have seen around the world have the cleanest bodies, the filthiest minds, the highest morale, and the lowest morals of any group of animals I have ever seen. Thank God for the United States Marine Corps!
Eleanor Roosevelt


Jack Edgar, Sgt. USMC Korea 51/52
Get off my lawn ! Upset





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#18
  Re: RE: Japanese hand saws by Timberwolf ([quote='MarvW' pid='...)
(02-15-2018, 11:19 PM)Timberwolf Wrote: .
Hi Marv...long time no see..Good to see you posting again and hope you keep it up....I always enjoyed your posts...

My experience with quality japanese saws is limited to one..... Crazy ..It was used and in good condition but not as sharp as it could be..So I bought a new feather file, thinking I would just touch up the shiny spots...That did not end well...the saw was harder than the $15.00 file!!!!! Upset  Upset ..Now when one of my cheap ones gets dull, I make a scraper out of it..... Crazy  Big Grin

Hi Jack.... yes, it's has been awhile.  I attempted a few times after the software change but couldn't get in and could never get a response from anyone running the place.  Finally got in contact with Dom and he then made it happen right away.  I had some computer problems and lost most of my old contacts.

I'm still no longer doing saw filing/sharpening but was still doing a little consulting until my other woodworking site seems to have gone belly up, have no idea what happened there though.

Thanks for the welcome back and I do check in quite often. Good to see you again too. You have always been very informative and helpful. Yes
Catchalater,
Marv


I did then what I knew how to do. Now that I know better, I do better.”
― Maya Angelou

I'm working toward my PHD.  (Projects Half Done)
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