S4S and Stain vs rough sawn

[Bope]

I have a client asking if I could build some saddle racks for her. I currently make tack trunks for her clients out of cherry and finished with ruby shellac and clear. She wants the saddle racks to match so things look uniform. I was thinking on trying to keep the cost down and get some 1x pine from Lowe's and stain it to match. I started looking at the price/bf and and the pine varies form about $3.50-$5.00/bf. The cherry is $4.50. I only need about 6 bf for each so about 30 bf total. From a material stand point it the cost is very comparable. Using the pine I see the added time and effort to stain. It wills till need shellac and clear. The cherry I would have to mill then shellac and clear and it will match. Would you charge significantly different for the piece in cherry vs pine based on materials and labor?

[photobug]

I have a client asking if I could build some saddle racks for her. I currently make tack trunks for her clients out of cherry and finished with ruby shellac and clear. She wants the saddle racks to match so things look uniform. I was thinking on trying to keep the cost down and get some 1x pine from Lowe's and stain it to match. I started looking at the price/bf and and the pine varies form about $3.50-$5.00/bf. The cherry is $4.50. I only need about 6 bf for each so about 30 bf total. From a material stand point it the cost is very comparable. Using the pine I see the added time and effort to stain. It wills till need shellac and clear. The cherry I would have to mill then shellac and clear and it will match. Would you charge significantly different for the piece in cherry vs pine based on materials and labor?

Sounds like a high end client that wants things to match.  If you start messing around with Pine, you are stuck to make it look like cherry.  It might take more effort than it's worth or not ever match well, you could even lose money in the effort.  

You should build out of cherry and charge them for your labor, whatever it is.  Another consideration is the retail price of materials.  I am not sure how it works in woodworking but I know my auto mechanic charges me retail for parts he gets wholesale.  I am not saying to necessarily charge retail for the cherry but maybe split the difference or at least charge for time and mileage for the effort to go to the harwood supplier to pick up the cherry.

[Alan S]

I have a client asking if I could build some saddle racks for her. I currently make tack trunks for her clients out of cherry and finished with ruby shellac and clear. She wants the saddle racks to match so things look uniform. I was thinking on trying to keep the cost down and get some 1x pine from Lowe's and stain it to match. I started looking at the price/bf and and the pine varies form about $3.50-$5.00/bf. The cherry is $4.50. I only need about 6 bf for each so about 30 bf total. From a material stand point it the cost is very comparable. Using the pine I see the added time and effort to stain. It wills till need shellac and clear. The cherry I would have to mill then shellac and clear and it will match. Would you charge significantly different for the piece in cherry vs pine based on materials and labor?

If matching matters, make them match.  Your price for pine is not enough less than cherry to make up for the extra effort or staining, and the fact that cherry changes in color as it ages so the difference would eventually become obvious.  Cherry should be more durable as well.

[Roly]

I have a client asking if I could build some saddle racks for her. I currently make tack trunks for her clients out of cherry and finished with ruby shellac and clear. She wants the saddle racks to match so things look uniform. I was thinking on trying to keep the cost down and get some 1x pine from Lowe's and stain it to match. I started looking at the price/bf and and the pine varies form about $3.50-$5.00/bf. The cherry is $4.50. I only need about 6 bf for each so about 30 bf total. From a material stand point it the cost is very comparable. Using the pine I see the added time and effort to stain. It wills till need shellac and clear. The cherry I would have to mill then shellac and clear and it will match. Would you charge significantly different for the piece in cherry vs pine based on materials and labor?

 Stain on pine will not match the grain in cherry.    Alder can match cherry very close but if she wants them to match use cherry, more than color is needed to match.   You can paint a elephant green but it won't look like a frog.  Roly

[tablesawtom]

 Stain on pine will not match the grain in cherry.    Alder can match cherry very close but if she wants them to match use cherry, more than color is needed to match.   You can paint a elephant green but it won't look like a frog.  Roly

Off the topic but I loved your analogy about the frog

Tom

[wood-chips]

 I started looking at the price/bf and and the pine varies form about $3.50-$5.00/bf. The cherry is $4.50. I only need about 6 bf for each so about 30 bf total. From a material stand point it the cost is very comparable. Using the pine I see the added time and effort to stain. It wills till need shellac and clear. The cherry I would have to mill then shellac and clear and it will match. Would you charge significantly different for the piece in cherry vs pine based on materials and labor?

Did you give the customer and estimate/cost for the 6 saddle racks and prices for pine or cherry?

Materials wise in your pricing you are only talking $30 between pine and cherry.  Yes you can "kind of" make pine look like cherry, some may not notice, but most everyone on this forum would be able to tell its not cherry.  And yes milling and prep will take time and you may have some unruly pieces resulting in using more materials.  But it will be cherry when it's done.  Another factor to consider is that they are saddle racks subject to some rough use/treatment, there's a high probability that they will get dinged up scratched and so on.  If so, bright white pine would definitely stand out when scratched or chipped and be a lot of work to make it "look" like cherry again.

And finally, if you were building it for yourself would you cheap on pine?

[Bope]

Thanks for the replies. I was already leaning toward the cherry route and you helped push me over. I haven't given any prices yet. I actually stopped by Lowe's last night to pick up some pine to make a prototype, mostly for my benefit. I ended up paying $4.44bf. Lowe's is a lot closer than the hardwood store. The cheaper stuff was pieced together boards and would look awful stained. The client isn't high end but wants things to look like they match at least from a distance. Not sure they would notice the difference in grain. The online pricing for these things is $115. I wouldn't pay that much for one of these so I was trying to find a way to make them a little cheaper. Although the online ones are stained pine or something similar. I thought the pine would significantly reduce my material cost but that just isn't the case.

[Bill Wilson]

Thanks for the replies. I was already leaning toward the cherry route and you helped push me over. I haven't given any prices yet. I actually stopped by Lowe's last night to pick up some pine to make a prototype, mostly for my benefit. I ended up paying $4.44bf. Lowe's is a lot closer than the hardwood store. The cheaper stuff was pieced together boards and would look awful stained. The client isn't high end but wants things to look like they match at least from a distance. Not sure they would notice the difference in grain. The online pricing for these things is $115. I wouldn't pay that much for one of these so I was trying to find a way to make them a little cheaper. Although the online ones are stained pine or something similar. I thought the pine would significantly reduce my material cost but that just isn't the case.

Pine might lower your cost, if you bought a lower grade, at the lumber yard instead of Lowes.  However, that would present even more problems with getting it to resemble cherry, because it would be full of knots.  Clear white pine isn't cheap, especially at Lowes.

[Admiral]

Thanks for the replies. I was already leaning toward the cherry route and you helped push me over. I haven't given any prices yet. I actually stopped by Lowe's last night to pick up some pine to make a prototype, mostly for my benefit. I ended up paying $4.44bf. Lowe's is a lot closer than the hardwood store. The cheaper stuff was pieced together boards and would look awful stained. The client isn't high end but wants things to look like they match at least from a distance. Not sure they would notice the difference in grain. The online pricing for these things is $115. I wouldn't pay that much for one of these so I was trying to find a way to make them a little cheaper. Although the online ones are stained pine or something similar. I thought the pine would significantly reduce my material cost but that just isn't the case.

I think you have to reconsider your wood supplier.  You can get eastern white pine for about $2 bd.ft., but pine is really too soft for what I think will be heavy use, I'd consider poplar for maybe $2.50 bd ft., and poplar will be more stout, and can be stained to reasonably resemble cherry.  Again, as someone noted, your material cost is your material cost, so check out online suppliers, have them ship and base your quote on that plus your labor.  She is particular, she wants matching, well, that costs.  I'd quote her cherry and if she balks, then poplar.

[rwe2156]

Too late know, but for future ref, poplar dyed with cherry or cinnamon mimics cherry very well.

In fact, I've seen some that you would bet your house was cherry ;-)