03-29-2018, 10:20 PM (This post was last modified: 03-29-2018, 10:21 PM by jussi.)
Hi guys. I was starting the setup on my new to me bandsaw but life got in the way and I had to put it off till now. A few questions. This is my first large bandsaw. It's a Laguna 16HD.
1. I just realized the tires have crowns. I always thought on larger bandsaws the tires were supposed to be flat??
2. The bottom guide doesn't seem to have an adjustable thrust bearing. It's in a fixed position. I was trying to adjust such the teeth on be right on the edge of the tires for both top and bottom wheel. But since the bottom wheel has a fixed position thrust bearing I can't move it back and the teeth are slightly proud while the top tire has the wheel at the blade right at the edge of the wheel. Hope that makes sense. Pics below. First pic is top wheel. 2nd is bottom
3. Some of the bottom wheel is chewed up. See 3rd pic. Should I replace it? The tires have become pretty hard and I'm pretty sure is well stuck to the wheel. If I have to replace it, what's the best method for removal. Recommendations on replacement wheels.
If the tires are crowned you want to run the blade roughly centered on the tire; otherwise you won't be able to get it to track straight. The crown provides a place for the teeth to pass w/o tearing up the tire, just like hanging the blade off the front does on a flat tire. Once you center the blade on the tire you will likely find the trust bearing is in the right location. But there should still be some sort of adjustment capability with it so that you can run different width blades. With some bearing assemblies you move the entire assembly fore/aft to get the thrust bearing in the correct position, and then the side guides have an additional adjustment range.
As for changing the tires, I would contact Laguna to find out about replacements and how they are removed/installed. You may choose to buy them somewhere else, but at least you will have they info. needed to do it properly.
To preface, I own three of these saws. One 16HD and two 18 Italians.
1. Yes the tires are crowned. John has given you good advice. In my experience, your blades are too far forward in the pics
2. The lower thrust bearing is absolutely adjustable. In fact yours shows the tell-tale signs of being adjusted. See the different lines going down it. That shows it had been turned many times. The thumbscrew for it is in the inside edge of the blue guide holder, your pics all show the outside edge. I can only surmise you recently bought this saw used. Your thumbscrew may be missing and the bearing stuck. If so, remove the whole assemble and push it out. The apply some anti seize compound.
3. I have owned my 16HD for about 13 years and have not had issue with tires. The other saws are newer. As John suggested I would contact Laguna for suggestions as these are not really something you can just pick up at retail.
Thanks for the replies guys. I’ll look at the bottom guide again. I may just missed the adjustment. And yes i got it used from an estate sale about a month ago. Really looking forward to putting to use and doing some resawing. Will also give laguna a call or maybe just stop by this weekend if they’re open.
I’m going to only use it for rip or resawing so will keep a 1” blade or larger blade on it. So the rule of thumb for those is to keep the blade centered to wheel. I saw Alex snodgrass video about bs setup and he suggests putting gullet of blade center of wheel. But I guess that’s only for 14” or smaller bs with 1/2” or smaller blade?
Start with the blade centered on the upper wheel and the guides wide open. Get it to track there when you rotate the wheels by hand and under tension. You can use any method you want to tension it, but keep in mind carbide blades like in your photo are designed to be run at 25 - 30K psi. Turn on the saw and do any final tension adjustment needed - basically, make sure it doesn't flutter. If it does, increase or decrease the tension until it no longer does. Turn off the saw and adjust the guides. Then turn the saw back on and see if it cuts straight and parallel with the miter slot. If it doesn't adjust the position of the blade on the upper wheel until it does. With the fence set parallel with the miter slot, you should be able to rip or resaw a piece of wood perfectly parallel to it. If it doesn't, the blade needs to be moved on the upper wheel or it's dull on one side.
Thanks John and Wayne for the great advice. I was finally able to set it up last couple of days. No project yet but the few test cuts I made were very promising. Within 1/100 of an inch measuring all 4 sides of the cut. I could probably get it closer but since the piece will be jointed / planed or ran through the drum sander I'm not sure it's worth the effort. As Wayne pointed there certainly is an adjustment for the thrust bearing. I just didn't recognize it because I'm used to the 14" bandsaw settings and was looking for something similar.
Follow up questions
1. Are the numbers in the bandsaw tension guide is K psi? As John suggested I just tightened till there was no flutter.
2. Do I de-tension after use? If so, does the blade typically move and will I have to re-calibrate the blade again when I use it?
3. The phenolic or ceramic ?? blade guides are kind of worn and they don't make full contact with the blade. Should I replace them. Is the phenolic / ceramic part a consumable that can be replaced easily? But as I said the cuts seem to be pretty good so maybe I shouldn't bother unless that changes?
The manual for the HD16 says to remove the tension after use, over night. I have not noticed and change in the cut after re-tensioning the blade. The Laguna blade guides are ceramic. I had to replace one of mine, no fault of the machine. I called customer service at Laguna and they sent me 4 new ones right away. I have had my resaw king blade resharpened by laguna and have nothing but good service from them. Looking at the manual I have not been tensioning the blade correctly, I'll try the above method. Adjusting the ceramics Laguna suggests using a dollar bill to set the clearance to the blade. Make sure the weld will clear the ceramics by rotating by hand. The ceramics are very hard and damage easily, as I found out.
04-07-2018, 02:29 PM (This post was last modified: 04-07-2018, 02:30 PM by jteneyck.)
No clue if the tension scale on your saw is in ksi, but I rather doubt it. How would it know what width blade you have on it? It would have to have a tension scale for every width blade. If you want an accurate measurement of tension make yourself a simple tension meter out of a set of 6" Vernier calipers and two little c-clamps. If you want to know the details let me know and I'll dig up an old post.
I de-tension after I'm done for the day, but many folks don't and it's not necessary as far as blade life is concerned. I do it because the tires on my 14" Delta tend to extrude under constant load and then they jump off the wheels. If I replaced the tires it probably would be a non issue, and it's likely a non-issue on your saw. In any case, I have no issue with the blade changing position on the wheels after I re-tension it. I do the same on my larger, 17" Grizzly and there's no issue with it either.
As said, guides aren't supposed to be rub against the blade, even roller guides. Set them according to the manual, but it's usually several thousandths clearance. I just eyeball it, and then make sure the blade doesn't make contact with the guides when it's running free. If the blade is sharp, centered, and has enough tension on it guides are almost unnecessary when resawing.
04-09-2018, 06:51 PM (This post was last modified: 04-09-2018, 07:13 PM by loosetoe.)
(04-07-2018, 09:07 AM)jussi Wrote: Thanks John and Wayne for the great advice. I was finally able to set it up last couple of days. No project yet but the few test cuts I made were very promising. Within 1/100 of an inch measuring all 4 sides of the cut. I could probably get it closer but since the piece will be jointed / planed or ran through the drum sander I'm not sure it's worth the effort. As Wayne pointed there certainly is an adjustment for the thrust bearing. I just didn't recognize it because I'm used to the 14" bandsaw settings and was looking for something similar.
Follow up questions
1. Are the numbers in the bandsaw tension guide is K psi? As John suggested I just tightened till there was no flutter.
2. Do I de-tension after use? If so, does the blade typically move and will I have to re-calibrate the blade again when I use it?
3. The phenolic or ceramic ?? blade guides are kind of worn and they don't make full contact with the blade. Should I replace them. Is the phenolic / ceramic part a consumable that can be replaced easily? But as I said the cuts seem to be pretty good so maybe I shouldn't bother unless that changes?
1. the numbers are METRIC widths of blades for tension. SO set the tension to 13 for a 1/2" blade or 25 for for a 1" blade. I generally trust this tension guide. I wont argue with what others do, but i trust the tension meter on these saws.
2. if you wish to detension, it may increase the life of your tires. I generally do not. You should not have to recalibrate, but YMMV.
3. I have NEVER had to replace a guide. If they are not making contact, the guides are not set correctly. These guides SHOULD touch the blade on ALL sides. Moreover i have done it for many years with no adverse consequence. Just dont run a tooth into the guide. Consider these guides like cool blocks. The only down side is that they dont work with small blades due to their hardness.
I realize the above posters ARE correct in quoting Laguna's official recommendation; however, i assure you the saw's performance is greatly enhanced by contacting the blade. IN the early videos for the saws you would see Torben (owner of Laguna) discussing the dollar bill method, then you would later see him discuss removing harmonic vibration from the blade by contacting the blade with the guides. I recommend you try both methods and see which one works best for you. I certainly dont wish to start an internet argument with folks over how they use a bandsaw, but i have found that contacting the blade really makes these saws SING, moreover it is this reason that i purchased the two 18" saws last year for my production shop. The 16 resides at home. BTW, i use these saws ONLY with a wide carbide blade. Scroll cuts are done on smaller saws.
(04-09-2018, 06:51 PM)loosetoe Wrote: 1. the numbers are METRIC widths of blades for tension. SO set the tension to 13 for a 1/2" blade or 25 for for a 1" blade. I generally trust this tension guide. I wont argue with what others do, but i trust the tension meter on these saws.
2. if you wish to detension, it may increase the life of your tires. I generally do not. You should not have to recalibrate, but YMMV.
3. I have NEVER had to replace a guide. If they are not making contact, the guides are not set correctly. These guides SHOULD touch the blade on ALL sides. Moreover i have done it for many years with no adverse consequence. Just dont run a tooth into the guide. Consider these guides like cool blocks. The only down side is that they dont work with small blades due to their hardness.
I realize the above posters ARE correct in quoting Laguna's official recommendation; however, i assure you the saw's performance is greatly enhanced by contacting the blade. IN the early videos for the saws you would see Torben (owner of Laguna) discussing the dollar bill method, then you would later see him discuss removing harmonic vibration from the blade by contacting the blade with the guides. I recommend you try both methods and see which one works best for you. I certainly dont wish to start an internet argument with folks over how they use a bandsaw, but i have found that contacting the blade really makes these saws SING, moreover it is this reason that i purchased the two 18" saws last year for my production shop. The 16 resides at home. BTW, i use these saws ONLY with a wide carbide blade. Scroll cuts are done on smaller saws.
You won't get harmonic vibration if the tension is set correctly and, if you have it, you can eliminate it by increasing or decreasing the tension.
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