Southern Yellow Pine Cutting Boards
#21
I have a butcherblock counter top.  I sealed it under 5 coats of oil based poly.  I don't cut on the surface.

The problem with oil/wax sealing of a butcher block is that while it will protect the wood, it does not protect the residents that use it.  It becomes a breeding ground for bacteria, for which there is no real way to sterilize and make safe again.  

End grain is the same but worse.

I love wood, but I cut on plastic.  The NSF only certifies plastic cutting boards for restaurant use. Mine are large, but just small enough to fit in my dishwasher.  You can cut down plastic with a table saw to fit your dishwasher. 

A nice wood base makes the plastic acceptable in my opinion.  After use, put the plastic insert in the dishwasher.  A good cutting board will withstand 180 degrees, and can be replaced when worn (using the same wood base).
No animals were injured or killed in the production of this post.
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#22
(09-04-2018, 09:59 AM)Cooler Wrote: I have a butcherblock counter top.  I sealed it under 5 coats of oil based poly.  I don't cut on the surface.

The problem with oil/wax sealing of a butcher block is that while it will protect the wood, it does not protect the residents that use it.  It becomes a breeding ground for bacteria, for which there is no real way to sterilize and make safe again.  

End grain is the same but worse.

I love wood, but I cut on plastic.  The NSF only certifies plastic cutting boards for restaurant use. Mine are large, but just small enough to fit in my dishwasher.  You can cut down plastic with a table saw to fit your dishwasher. 

A nice wood base makes the plastic acceptable in my opinion.  After use, put the plastic insert in the dishwasher.  A good cutting board will withstand 180 degrees, and can be replaced when worn (using the same wood base).

This is patently false. Wood, even soft woods like butternut and basswood, are significantly safer than plastic boards. Don't take it from me - I'm not that kind of doctor - but do read for yourself:

http://www.treenshop.com/Treenshop/Artic...rticle.pdf
https://www.researchgate.net/publication...conditions

The second study even suggests that pine is more antimicrobial than other woods. There are many other studies available, as the initially published results were considered counterintuitive. However, all they have done is reproduce the initial results.

I am a scientist, so I care what the evidence says, not what Consumer Reports or the NSF says. In the face of evidence that suggests that their recommendations are not only not accurate but factually wrong, they refuse to change their recommendations, and I do not take advice from Luddites.
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#23
(09-04-2018, 02:02 PM)FS7 Wrote: This is patently false. Wood, even soft woods like butternut and basswood, are significantly safer than plastic boards. Don't take it from me - I'm not that kind of doctor - but do read for yourself:

http://www.treenshop.com/Treenshop/Artic...rticle.pdf
https://www.researchgate.net/publication...conditions

The second study even suggests that pine is more antimicrobial than other woods. There are many other studies available, as the initially published results were considered counterintuitive. However, all they have done is reproduce the initial results.

I am a scientist, so I care what the evidence says, not what Consumer Reports or the NSF says. In the face of evidence that suggests that their recommendations are not only not accurate but factually wrong, they refuse to change their recommendations, and I do not take advice from Luddites.
Pick your authority.  The USDA link is current; the article you posted was from 1993.  The USDA is recommending chlorine bleach for sanitizing.  They are also recommending separate cutting boards for raw meats, poultry and fish and all other foods to avoid cross contamination:

https://www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/portal/fsi...ood-safety

Cleaning Cutting Boards
To keep all cutting boards clean, the Hotline recommends washing them with hot, soapy water after each use; then rinse with clear water and air dry or pat dry with clean paper towels. Nonporous acrylic, plastic, or glass boards and solid wood boards can be washed in a dishwasher (laminated boards may crack and split).


Both wooden and plastic cutting boards can be sanitized with a solution of 1 tablespoon of unscented, liquid chlorine bleach per gallon of water. Flood the surface with the bleach solution and allow it to stand for several minutes. Rinse with clear water and air dry or pat dry with clean paper towels.




The above will work for small cutting boards but not butcher block counters.
No animals were injured or killed in the production of this post.
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#24
(09-04-2018, 02:18 PM)Cooler Wrote: Pick your authority.  The USDA link is current; the article you posted was from 1993.  The USDA is recommending chlorine bleach for sanitizing.  They are also recommending separate cutting boards for raw meats, poultry and fish and all other foods to avoid cross contamination:

https://www.fsis.usda.gov/wps/portal/fsi...ood-safety

Cleaning Cutting Boards
To keep all cutting boards clean, the Hotline recommends washing them with hot, soapy water after each use; then rinse with clear water and air dry or pat dry with clean paper towels. Nonporous acrylic, plastic, or glass boards and solid wood boards can be washed in a dishwasher (laminated boards may crack and split).


Both wooden and plastic cutting boards can be sanitized with a solution of 1 tablespoon of unscented, liquid chlorine bleach per gallon of water. Flood the surface with the bleach solution and allow it to stand for several minutes. Rinse with clear water and air dry or pat dry with clean paper towels.




The above will work for small cutting boards but not butcher block counters.

There are no citations in the USDA link, probably because they don't make anything other than very neutral and cautious claims while still acknowledging that wood is safe.

My claim is not that plastic is unsafe, but rather that wood is safe. There is no data to support the claim that wood is unsafe, and this includes end-grain cutting boards and butcher blocks. Some other studies suggest that end-gran cutting boards actually hinder bacteria growth by wicking moisture. Most people advocating for the use of plastic suggest this means bacteria multiply inside the wood; data shows that bacteria do not survive either inside the wood or on it.

Of note is the idea that it is the wood itself that is antimicrobial. Dr. Cliver's initial aim was to study a method of safely sanitizing wooden cutting boards, but what they found was that they didn't need to. A recent study even suggests that oil slightly limits the antimicrobial properties of wood. While wood is still better than plastic, untreated wood apparently retains less bacteria than oiled wood.

https://www.johnboos.com/Uploads/Files/P...-FINAL.pdf

While I don't make the claim, the body of research supports the idea that wood kills bacteria while plastic allows it to multiply. That is, when a known quantity of bacteria is introduced to a surface, research shows that wood kills it (there is less at measurement time) while plastic allows it to multiply. I clean my cutting boards with warm water and an abrasive pad because I don't want my food to taste like whatever else was on it previously, but it isn't necessary for food safety.
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#25
If not yet suggested, a LIFE-SIZE Jenga set?

[Image: 8e8f167cc82444bdbb8bf3c3504e01c5-498x698...ejenga.jpg]
[Image: possible_jenga.1.jpg]
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#26
(09-04-2018, 02:37 PM)FS7 Wrote: There are no citations in the USDA link, probably because they don't make anything other than very neutral and cautious claims while still acknowledging that wood is safe.

My claim is not that plastic is unsafe, but rather that wood is safe. There is no data to support the claim that wood is unsafe, and this includes end-grain cutting boards and butcher blocks. Some other studies suggest that end-gran cutting boards actually hinder bacteria growth by wicking moisture. Most people advocating for the use of plastic suggest this means bacteria multiply inside the wood; data shows that bacteria do not survive either inside the wood or on it.

Of note is the idea that it is the wood itself that is antimicrobial. Dr. Cliver's initial aim was to study a method of safely sanitizing wooden cutting boards, but what they found was that they didn't need to. A recent study even suggests that oil slightly limits the antimicrobial properties of wood. While wood is still better than plastic, untreated wood apparently retains less bacteria than oiled wood.

https://www.johnboos.com/Uploads/Files/P...-FINAL.pdf

While I don't make the claim, the body of research supports the idea that wood kills bacteria while plastic allows it to multiply. That is, when a known quantity of bacteria is introduced to a surface, research shows that wood kills it (there is less at measurement time) while plastic allows it to multiply. I clean my cutting boards with warm water and an abrasive pad because I don't want my food to taste like whatever else was on it previously, but it isn't necessary for food safety.

That's interesting. thanks for the link.
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#27
(09-04-2018, 09:40 PM)mvflaim Wrote: That's interesting. thanks for the link.

That is indeed.  Thanks from me as well.
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#28
(09-04-2018, 02:37 PM)FS7 Wrote: There are no citations in the USDA link, probably because they don't make anything other than very neutral and cautious claims while still acknowledging that wood is safe.

My claim is not that plastic is unsafe, but rather that wood is safe. There is no data to support the claim that wood is unsafe, and this includes end-grain cutting boards and butcher blocks. Some other studies suggest that end-gran cutting boards actually hinder bacteria growth by wicking moisture. Most people advocating for the use of plastic suggest this means bacteria multiply inside the wood; data shows that bacteria do not survive either inside the wood or on it.

Of note is the idea that it is the wood itself that is antimicrobial. Dr. Cliver's initial aim was to study a method of safely sanitizing wooden cutting boards, but what they found was that they didn't need to. A recent study even suggests that oil slightly limits the antimicrobial properties of wood. While wood is still better than plastic, untreated wood apparently retains less bacteria than oiled wood.

https://www.johnboos.com/Uploads/Files/P...-FINAL.pdf

While I don't make the claim, the body of research supports the idea that wood kills bacteria while plastic allows it to multiply. That is, when a known quantity of bacteria is introduced to a surface, research shows that wood kills it (there is less at measurement time) while plastic allows it to multiply. I clean my cutting boards with warm water and an abrasive pad because I don't want my food to taste like whatever else was on it previously, but it isn't necessary for food safety.

It is a widely known fact that linoleum has anti-microbial properties, probably for the same reason that wood has--it is made from linseed oil, pine wood dust and cork.  For that reason it was a flooring of choice in hospitals.  But that flooring of choice was based upon the full corridor width rolls that were glued down, and not the 12" x 12" squares that are more common nowadays.  Each of the seams represents a bacteria trap, greatly overshadowing the anti-microbial properties.  

The tests I read compared bacteria growth with meat juices left on the surface of both plastic and wood cutting boards.  It demonstrates that the wood cutting boards performed better in keeping the bacteria count down.  It did not compare cleaned wood and cleaned plastic cutting boards (cleaned after use).  So I don't consider those valid for the way I use cutting boards.  Further the end grain boards retain more juices more deeply and are more difficult to clean.  

So if you want a cutting board that is marginally better in fighting bacteria when left "dirty" (with the meat juices in place), then use wood.  If you clean, or want to clean your cutting boards for better reduction in bacteria count, then plastic that can be put in a dishwasher is a far better choice.
No animals were injured or killed in the production of this post.
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#29
Without wading into the argument... My mother used a pine cutting board for 30+ years, (I'm sure she still has it) I'm sure many of you grew up eating food the was cut on pine boards.
Mark

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#30
(09-05-2018, 01:36 PM)CLETUS Wrote: Without wading into the argument... My mother used a pine cutting board for 30+ years, (I'm sure she still has it) I'm sure many of you grew up eating food the was cut on pine boards.

I made the simple mistake of making a cutting board using regular woodworking glue. Then, my step daughter put it in her dishwasher.... oops
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