STALLION BANDSAW 15''

[fall]

Anyone have one of theses saw? I have never seen them before. Something new to the bandsaw picks.





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[EvilTwin]

Anyone have one of theses saw? I have never seen them before. Something new to the bandsaw picks.





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Another steel frame clone import.  Never heard of them either, for me that would not bode well for long term support.  Just look at the thread on the Steel City bandsaw that the owner is trying to source table trunnions.  BTW, look at the pix on this one, they may be aluminum or they may be pot metal.  

Has some nice features, but appears to be the house brand of CWI machinery, whoever they are.  If you are going to spend the money on a new saw, go with a Griz, at least they will probably still be here in 10 years.

[Huxleywood]

Another steel frame clone import.  Never heard of them either, for me that would not bode well for long term support.  Just look at the thread on the Steel City bandsaw that the owner is trying to source table trunnions.  BTW, look at the pix on this one, they may be aluminum or they may be pot metal.  

Has some nice features, but appears to be the house brand of CWI machinery, whoever they are.  If you are going to spend the money on a new saw, go with a Griz, at least they will probably still be here in 10 years.

They are Canadian so you don't see much of their stuff south of the border.  Their lower line (which is heavier than the Grizzly 513/514 series) are white labeled by GeeTech, if you look at this 15" saw it is a mix of the Jet and PM 15" saws falling somewhere in the middle.  Their Italian line is white labeled by Centauro and it is their CO HD line, simply the best steel spined saws that you can buy today.  These are the same saws SCM/Minimax sell in their MM line (now called SP but most still refer to them as the MM line since they didn't change other than the name).  

While it makes sense to be wary of a relative newcomer to the market (I think they have been around for 3-4 years) they sell some very high quality machines.

[fishhh4]

That is a nice-looking bandsaw. Also a nice presentation by that Gentleman on YouTube.

[JimDaddyO]

CWI bought up the designs from General and General International when they folded as far as I remember.  The saws are virtually the same with some updates to the specs.  They are slowly growing and just recently opened a store in the Toronto area I believe.

[fall]

Interesting info on the saw and company. I am not in the need for a saw but thought I would bring it to light in case someone was.

[JimDaddyO]

Cole Moore, the owner of CWI is a member of another forum I am a member of.  The reason that I am aware of the company is that I am going to have to replace my old table saw someday and their Stallion brand is one of the ones I am looking at.  Originally I wanted a General International 50-200 small cabinet saw but they went belly up.  Then too, I am looking at their Scorpion Jointer/Planer combo machine too.  Now I just have to win the lottery or something like that.  Checking their website will show that they have a pretty full line of products.

http://www.cwimachinery.com/

[EvilTwin]

Cole Moore, the owner of CWI is a member of another forum I am a member of.  The reason that I am aware of the company is that I am going to have to replace my old table saw someday and their Stallion brand is one of the ones I am looking at.  Originally I wanted a General International 50-200 small cabinet saw but they went belly up.  Then too, I am looking at their Scorpion Jointer/Planer combo machine too.  Now I just have to win the lottery or something like that.  Checking their website will show that they have a pretty full line of products.

http://www.cwimachinery.com/

The machinery they are selling looks pretty nice and has some nice features.  But looking over the last 20 years,  many companies selling imported machinery have come and gone.  If General decided that it didn't make sense to continue to import these machines under their name, I'm not so sure how an ostensibly smaller  company can make it work over time.

I think the issue most people who buy new equipment want to avoid is having to fix their machines or not having replacement parts available when they need them.  Mind you, I'm firmly in the old arn camp, with the exception of a recent purchase of a NOVA DVR lathe.  So I'm ok with fixing machines and sourcing parts for manufacturers long out of business.

In this instance if I were to buy another new machine, I would look strongly at the companies that have been around for a while and will hopefully be around in the next ten years.  For me, that would be sellers like Griz, NOVA, SawStop, Jet/Powermatic to name a few.  Even if the prices were skewed toward the lesser known brands,  I would be more comfortable spending the coin on a brand I had more faith in.  

Of course YMMV, so buy whatever you want.

[JimDaddyO]

The machinery they are selling looks pretty nice and has some nice features.  But looking over the last 20 years,  many companies selling imported machinery have come and gone.  If General decided that it didn't make sense to continue to import these machines under their name, I'm not so sure how an ostensibly smaller  company can make it work over time.

I think the issue most people who buy new equipment want to avoid is having to fix their machines or not having replacement parts available when they need them.  Mind you, I'm firmly in the old arn camp, with the exception of a recent purchase of a NOVA DVR lathe.  So I'm ok with fixing machines and sourcing parts for manufacturers long out of business.

In this instance if I were to buy another new machine, I would look strongly at the companies that have been around for a while and will hopefully be around in the next ten years.  For me, that would be sellers like Griz, NOVA, SawStop, Jet/Powermatic to name a few.  Even if the prices were skewed toward the lesser known brands,  I would be more comfortable spending the coin on a brand I had more faith in.  

Of course YMMV, so buy whatever you want.

I copied and pasted this from Cole's post on another site and it may shed some light into why General went belly up.  Businesses and the way they operate is a funny thing sometimes. 

Quote:


The fall of General is completely at the hands of the new owners who purchased General a few years ago. Simply said…the new owners destroyed the foundation in which General was built by gutting the staff who built it….discontinuing the relationships of the factories that built the equipment…and with seemingly a purpose to simply run the Canadian operation to bankruptcy. All that is left is the “GIPP” division based in the USA. (General International Power Products) which are the Red color disposable machines made in China some of you may have seen.

When General was sold it was by far the strongest manufacturer of woodworking machinery sold in Canada dwarfing all others in the same category including the European companies selling similar product categories. At least 80% of their sales were to Canadians with about 20% sold in the USA. But for whatever reasons that seem to be only personal by the new owner…. the Canadian division was driven out of business within three years of the takeover.

And also:


Yes this whole thing does have a similar feel to what happened to House of Tools…took them five years to run a $55,000,000.00 company into the ground….also at that time opening up new opportunities for others like us and KMS Tools.


The difference I believe is the new owners of HOT just had a failing in understanding how to run such a company that was so much different than their own…even though they shared a similar customer type.

The General fall was much different in that it was seemingly done on purpose….by a new owner with intentions that no one understands…but can only speculate.

I call both failings a result of “changing the footprint” of a company. Companies are built a certain way by certain people to reach success in operations. If new owners change the footprint on which the company was built it can have devastating effects.

[JimDaddyO]

It should also be noted that many similar imported machines come from the same factories and seemingly differ only in their paint schemes.  While this may be true in some cases it is not the just the paint that differs in others.  The manufacturing industry, anywhere in the world, builds what the customer (brand, in this case) wants.  

While designs and appearance may be the same, the customer/brand, will set out the specifications to be built to, and also the desired quality control.  While one machine may be built solely with "price point" as an objective, another, seemingly identical machine, from a different brand, may have a slew of different specs that make it more robust.  Motors, bearings, castings, materials, and other items may make one brands machine significantly better than another.

The bottom line is that if you order cheap crap, that's what you get, for the most part.  Other companies who value their reputation and name may have something that looks similar, but costs more, because of the upgrades and attention to detail they pay for.  Of course, this added cost is passed on to the consumer. 

In my experience in the manufacturing sector (bearings was one of them), OEM parts have to meet a certain specification.  The aftermarket has a lower standard.  Yet everything comes off the same line.  It is possible that the few parts that do not meet OEM specs get boxed for the aftermarket, but for the most part, the line just keeps running and parts that DO meet OEM go to aftermarket too.  They don't adjust the machinery/line to make a worse part for the aftermarket.  That's just not cost effective.  That being said, the aftermarket spec may be very close to the OEM spec, differing by negligible amounts.  Those specs do build up though, and when (possibly) spread across every component in a machine, can make a huge difference.  Which explains why an inexpensive machine can sometimes be a gem.  It just happened that it got all "good" parts, more by accident than design.  Just as likely though it has a casting with a mount that is machined .010 over size, holding a bearing with .005 more radial play, containing a shaft that is .015 under size and you get a machine with a vibration that can't be fixed because there is .030 of cumulative "error" over all.