Finishig new interior doors

[gordon 131]

Hello all! We are in the planning stages of doing some remodeling in our home. Includes kitchen, all flooring, interior doors etc. I am in the process of ordering some solid knotty alder interior doors. I was planning on staining them a translucent grey color, and topcoating with conversion varnish ( my neighbor does body work so he he sprays for me in one of his booths) , which always turns out awesome.  On alder, I usually use a stain conditioner and pigment stain like minwax and then topcoat.
Is there another type of stain or finish schedule you guys have used that would be faster or yield better results? I have five doors to do , and then later the trim which will probably be paint grade poplar so ( a different thread for that project?)
So what do you guys think?
Thank You
Gordon

[gordon 131]

Was just at the target coatings website(that was mentioned in another thread) and was looking at their wr4000 waterbased stains. They look pretty promising , and will definitely help with the blotching problem. They did not seem to have the color we are going for , but I may be able to get their with some toners. I also checked out their WB conversion varnish and their WB white lacquer which I may use for topcoat and my millwork/trim etc.
Does anyone have first hand experiences with any of these products?
I may just give them a try. I still will probably go to SW and see what they have available, as they have a few locations in town.
Thanks for any advice or experiences
Gordon

[jteneyck]

I think you are going to get blotching on alder with any wiping stain so I would consider a spray/no-wipe stain.  I think the TC stains can be used that way, but can't remember for sure.  Since your friend is going to spray finish them he could do the stain, too.  General Finishes definitely has some WB stains that can be used as spray/no-wipe, as does Homestead Finishing.  

My only experience with TC's products was with their EM-9300 exterior product, which looked awesome but was miserable on white oak and I ended up stripping it off and using GF Exterior 450.  I have a gallon of their lacquer but haven't used it yet.  Many folks report excellent results with their CV.  If your friend is going to do the spraying then he should already know how to protect himself from the catalyst fumes with CV's.  

For the paint grade work, you might consider TC's pigmented lacquer, SW's ProClassic paint, or BM's Advance paint, or BM"s Lenmar Duralac or Magnalac lacquer.  All can be tinted to the full color spectrum of BM's color chart, or SW's in the case of ProClassic.  I've sprayed BM's Advance and it's beautiful although it takes a really long time to cure.  I've also used Duralac tinted dark gray and it sprays great and cures very quickly.  Some people argue that doors should only be painted with a brush, in which case only the ProClassic or Advance would work.    

John

[gordon 131]

I think you are going to get blotching on alder with any wiping stain so I would consider a spray/no-wipe stain.  I think the TC stains can be used that way, but can't remember for sure.  Since your friend is going to spray finish them he could do the stain, too.  General Finishes definitely has some WB stains that can be used as spray/no-wipe, as does Homestead Finishing.  

My only experience with TC's products was with their EM-9300 exterior product, which looked awesome but was miserable on white oak and I ended up stripping it off and using GF Exterior 450.  I have a gallon of their lacquer but haven't used it yet.  Many folks report excellent results with their CV.  If your friend is going to do the spraying then he should already know how to protect himself from the catalyst fumes with CV's.  

For the paint grade work, you might consider TC's pigmented lacquer, SW's ProClassic paint, or BM's Advance paint, or BM"s Lenmar Duralac or Magnalac lacquer.  All can be tinted to the full color spectrum of BM's color chart, or SW's in the case of ProClassic.  I've sprayed BM's Advance and it's beautiful although it takes a really long time to cure.  I've also used Duralac tinted dark gray and it sprays great and cures very quickly.  Some people argue that doors should only be painted with a brush, in which case only the ProClassic or Advance would work.    

John

Thanks for the reply John, your posts are always very helpful and informative. I think I am going to try and find a WB stain to avoid the blotching. Not sure on topcoat of doors yet, may just stick to the SB SW CV as Jay ,my sprayer really likes that product and is familiar with it. Will the water base dye or pigment stains blotch if you apply with a brush and wipe off? I have never sprayed stains before so I do not know the process.
As far as the trim and millwork , do you feel that the WB pigmented lacquers would be as durable, and hard as the BM advance? Our trim and casing etc. is oak with a sprayed lacquer finish
and it is failing/gone/evaported throughout the house. So when I do this again I am looking to use a super durable / cleanable topcoat on everything as best as I can.
Thanks again John
Gordon

[jteneyck]

Thanks for the reply John, your posts are always very helpful and informative. I think I am going to try and find a WB stain to avoid the blotching. Not sure on topcoat of doors yet, may just stick to the SB SW CV as Jay ,my sprayer really likes that product and is familiar with it. Will the water base dye or pigment stains blotch if you apply with a brush and wipe off? I have never sprayed stains before so I do not know the process.
As far as the trim and millwork , do you feel that the WB pigmented lacquers would be as durable, and hard as the BM advance? Our trim and casing etc. is oak with a sprayed lacquer finish
and it is failing/gone/evaported throughout the house. So when I do this again I am looking to use a super durable / cleanable topcoat on everything as best as I can.
Thanks again John
Gordon

I've never used the SW CV product but I'm sure it's good and if your finisher likes it it would be done deal for me as long as you can find a color system to use under it that is compatible.   That would have me looking at SW's products first, but I don't know which ones to recommend.   

ANY wiping stain is likely to blotch on alder; WB or otherwise.  There are only two ways I've been able to avoid it.  1) Spray on a dye, toner, or spray/no-wipe stain.  2) Seal the wood and then use a glaze or gel stain.  

Turning alder translucent gray is going to be a trick.  You might be able to do it with a sprayed toner (option 1) or with a glaze (option 2), but I doubt a dye by itself is going to do it.  Time to make a lot of samples.  

The Target WB lacquer should be very durable as it is KCMA rated, IIRC.  The Lenmar MagnaLac (or maybe MegaLac) is KCMA rated, too, though not the Duralac.  I used Duralac on part of my kitchen cabinets before I knew about MagnaLac, and after I did some chemical testing that showed poor results I topcoated it with GF's Enduro Clear Poly.  So far, it's been fine, but I would use MagnaLac next time.  Are any of these lacquers as durable as Advance?  I can't say with any certainty, but I am certain they will be at least as hard, and hard a lot sooner.  Advance takes forever to really cure.  WB ProClassic is a very hard and durable product, too, and cures quickly.  

The WB lacquers I mentioned are spray only products.  Advance and ProClassic can be applied by spray or brush. 


Whatever system you use, make sure all the products are compatible.  The best way to do that is to use everything from one supplier, or at least products one supplier recommends as being compatible.   

John

[gordon 131]

I've never used the SW CV product but I'm sure it's good and if your finisher likes it it would be done deal for me as long as you can find a color system to use under it that is compatible.   That would have me looking at SW's products first, but I don't know which ones to recommend.   

ANY wiping stain is likely to blotch on alder; WB or otherwise.  There are only two ways I've been able to avoid it.  1) Spray on a dye, toner, or spray/no-wipe stain.  2) Seal the wood and then use a glaze or gel stain.  

Turning alder translucent gray is going to be a trick.  You might be able to do it with a sprayed toner (option 1) or with a glaze (option 2), but I doubt a dye by itself is going to do it.  Time to make a lot of samples.  

The Target WB lacquer should be very durable as it is KCMA rated, IIRC.  The Lenmar MagnaLac (or maybe MegaLac) is KCMA rated, too, though not the Duralac.  I used Duralac on part of my kitchen cabinets before I knew about MagnaLac, and after I did some chemical testing that showed poor results I topcoated it with GF's Enduro Clear Poly.  So far, it's been fine, but I would use MagnaLac next time.  Are any of these lacquers as durable as Advance?  I can't say with any certainty, but I am certain they will be at least as hard, and hard a lot sooner.  Advance takes forever to really cure.  WB ProClassic is a very hard and durable product, too, and cures quickly.  

The WB lacquers I mentioned are spray only products.  Advance and ProClassic can be applied by spray or brush. 


Whatever system you use, make sure all the products are compatible.  The best way to do that is to use everything from one supplier, or at least products one supplier recommends as being compatible.   

John

Thanks again John, I will be researching the SW CV, as I have seen on the internet where people are talking of failure with this product. Some claiming they reformulated this 3 years ago to meet VOC requirements , and it has been problematic since. I will head to SW and see if I can find someone there that has experience with this product.
I may just try their wiping stain on a shellac sealed door and see if that will work. I have some test material I can use to test it out.
Thank You
Gordon