If the perfect chisel or plane iron was made
#21
  Re: If the perfect chisel or plane iron was made by Arlin Eastman (What metals and how ...)
Three qualities to the steel: hold an edge, get sharp, easy to sharpen. Generally, these are not easy to find in the same steel. Currently, Japanese laminated white steel tends to be this way (although this is a generalisation - some cutting layers are harder than others). In modern Western steel, powdered metal has taken over from hammering the steel to achieve fine grain, and the carbides, which hold the edge, can get fine.

Thin blades, size of lands, handle design, length of blade, etc, etc ... how will all agree on what are individual choices?

Regards from Perth

Derek
Articles on furniture building, shop made tools and tool reviews at http://www.inthewoodshop.com
Reply
#22
  Re: RE: If the perfect chisel or plane iron was made by adamcherubini ([quote='Arlin Eastma...)
(04-15-2019, 07:51 PM)adamcherubini Wrote: Super easy answer. Good late 18th c, early 19th c hand made laminated plane irons and large chisels..

The laminated blades had super high carbon steel that got pretty hard, but remained easy to sharpen due to there being very little of it in the thickness. The bulk of the blade including most of the bevel was wrought iron or low carbon steel.

Edge holding has to do with grain size and impurities, that's why late 18th, early 19th when the steel was of better quality. By the mid 19th c they started dumbing down edge tools, drop forging etc. The laminated blades are said to possess shock absorbing properties that help with edge retention.

The act of cold working steel typically has the (in the 18th c probably unintended) effect of reducing grain size which both strengthened the steel (by reducing pockets of impurities) while allowing the steel to take fine smooth edges.

The lack of pro level customers, the race for market share and mass production ended the age of high end hand made edge tools in the UK.

I agree here. I use 19th century cast steel chisels from England exclusively. The majority of mine are from before 1840, which are somewhat nicer than the later stuff. This steel sharpens quickly, full bevel, terrific edge.
Reply
#23
  Re: RE: If the perfect chisel or plane iron was made by Arlin Eastman (There are tons of me...)
(04-15-2019, 12:35 PM)Arlin Eastman Wrote: There are tons of metals out there and just wondering if any of them might work like M42, M8  steel or others like that.

Something like O1 or A2 inside and M8 outside.  Kind of thinking out the box.

I've got some M2, CPM 3v, and 10V

There are tradeoffs for sure.  I love the 10V!  But I use diamonds when I sharpen.

It stays sharp for a long time but I also love O1 as it is so easy to sharpen.
Peter

My "day job"
Reply
#24
  Re: If the perfect chisel or plane iron was made by Arlin Eastman (What metals and how ...)
When I started woodworking, I thought the ultimate chisel would hold its edge through a day’s work at least. I sought out chisels made of magic steel with super high hardnesses. After a few years, I taught myself to sharpen, as we all do, and changed my mind about chisels. By sharpening often and being sympathetic to my tools’ edges, I was able to maintain a keen edge on just about any chisel. A few years after that, I started gravitating to certain handle and edge shapes, most of which are not available as new tools. So many chisels you guys talk about I find to be clumsy carpenters tools.

In the not so distant past, there was a myriad of differently shaped chisels. Today, you guys mostly only have Stanley 750 shapes. Some are thinner, some are shorter, but basically they are all the same. Manufacturers are trying to distinguish their products by making tools out of metal neither they nor you understand. In the end, all these tools will perform based solely on your ability to sharpen them and keep them sharp.

Nothing wrong with the 750s. But don’t be swayed by talk of magic steel. Get chisels whose handles you like, with quality made blades, carefully machined and ground, and sharpen them often. But know that Warren or I can buy a chisel on eBay for less than $5 that we can sharpen and make perform as good as or better than anything you can buy. Thats not a neener neener thing. It’s an invitation. You know who we are and we will help you if you want to try it for yourself.

PS since all of my free time is going in to converting a barn into a house, I’ve been buying and using carpenters tools for my sons. I bought them traditional modern carpenters chisels that no one likes; the plastic handled Stanley #60 (short, translucent yellow handle). So far so good. Most I have purchased appear to have been never sharpened, which may be a clue that explains the low opinion of these chisels! Paid about $25 a set (bought 3 sets), many unused. Cut mostly new construction lumber, but also 100yr old pine and chestnut. Not spent enough time with them to wholly recommend them, but I guess I just think the many negative reviews came from people who didnt know how to use or sharpen chisels.
Reply
#25
  Re: RE: If the perfect chisel or plane iron was made by adamcherubini (When I started woodw...)
(04-18-2019, 06:37 AM)adamcherubini Wrote: In the end, all these tools will perform based solely on your ability to sharpen them and keep them sharp.
This echoes well with Bandit's comment in another thread on chisels. While handles are also an important part, ultimately it is the user's sharpening skill that makes or breaks a chisel. No matter how fitting the handle is or how strong the steel is, the sharpening and chiselling techniques rule.

Don't place too much trust on tool reviews you see in any woodworking magazines, including those written by the better known authors who use hand tools. Half of them, at least, are ads in disguise.

Of course, if you have the money, there is no harm buying very nice chisels, just don't expect that they will result in better quality in your work. Anyone really think a $300 coping saw would get much better coping cuts?

Simon
Reply
#26
  Re: RE: If the perfect chisel or plane iron was made by Handplanesandmore ([quote='adamcherubin...)
(04-18-2019, 11:30 AM)Handplanesandmore Wrote: Don't place too much trust on tool reviews you see in any woodworking magazines, including those written by the better known authors who use hand tools. Half of them, at least, are ads in disguise.

Simon

Please explain your rationale for this statement.  It could be interpreted as meaning the testing was biased in some way.
Still Learning,

Allan Hill
Reply
#27
  Re: If the perfect chisel or plane iron was made by Arlin Eastman (What metals and how ...)
Yep...and just about every "What tool should I buy" post quickly goes into Info-mercial mode...as if some were paid a commission for each post on how they "LOVE" their version of said tool.....

I do not intend to marry any tool I buy...I do, however expect it to do the job I bought it for....If some "New & Improved" $$$ tool was so good, it would even open and pour my Guinness Draft for me...and fix supper, too. Winkgrin
Show me a picture, I'll build a project from that
Reply
#28
  Re: RE: If the perfect chisel or plane iron was made by AHill ([quote='Handplanesan...)
(04-18-2019, 04:32 PM)AHill Wrote: Please explain your rationale for this statement.  It could be interpreted as meaning the testing was biased in some way.

In Fine Woodworking (and in Popular Woodworking (older days)), we regularly see new products described and examined by either one of the editors or authors. Often, price as well as ordering info. (website or tool maker) is included. In the majority of cases, "testing" is nothing but opinion, unlike some of the reviews Derek went through comparing products of the same or similar kind. Neither the methodology or benchmark is established beforehand for the review or "testing."

It is not like A gets dull after 50 strokes, and B, 25 strokes. It's pure subjective, cosmetic, general, or superficial assessments (" sharp", "handle feels good, finish looks great" kinda comments) and, worse, probably based on a day's use, a week's use (or even shorter if there's an article deadline to meet!). Now and then, they will throw in a negative note on some unimportant thing to make their assessments look unbiased and authentic.

But they give away their cover when they conclude with something like this: Although it costs x times more than the regular one in the market, it is still worth the price for its superior quality and blah blah blah. In other words, every product that they care to review is...price worthy and excellent! (Translation: don't bite the hand......)

Go take a look at one of the recent reviews on a Cadillac-class (or is a Rolls Royce?) coping saw...,and ask yourself if it's an ad or what. It is a polished ad copy to me. (The author did not disclose if the saw was given to him, paid for by himself or paid for by the magazine.)

Edit: The editor received and published a letter from one of the readers who explicitly asked the magazine to stop reviewing tools like that coping saw, and  stick to "helpful reviews to things that we might actually want." Credits go to the editor for publishing that letter.


Simon
Reply
#29
  Re: If the perfect chisel or plane iron was made by Arlin Eastman (What metals and how ...)
(04-18-2019, 11:30 AM)Handplanesandmore Wrote: Of course, if you have the money, there is no harm buying very nice chisels, just don't expect that they will result in better quality in your work. Anyone really think a $300 coping saw would get much better coping cuts?

Simon

Take a very close look..
   
My go-to coping saw...is just a round bar framed Stanley....All it takes is a new, sharp blade, and it works just fine...was cleaning up pins..
   
Blades cost more than the coping saw did...I also have a few others....Atkins No. 50, Stanley/HK Porter No. 10..even a Millers falls one...depends on the blade I have it them, determines which get used...
Show me a picture, I'll build a project from that
Reply
#30
  Re: RE: If the perfect chisel or plane iron was made by bandit571 ([quote='Handplanesan...)
(04-18-2019, 05:05 PM)bandit571 Wrote: Blades cost more than the coping saw did...

How long can $300 worth of blades last for you?! 
Yes Laugh



Simon
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)