About ready to spring for the Spyderco ceramic stones...
#11
  
I have been on the cusp of buying a set of stones for some time.  I would read up on the different options, then I would get busy, and some time would go by...The process would repeat several times.  Until now.  I feel like my work is not as good as it can be because of my sharpening deficiency.  I have all the scary sharp sandpaper, glass, sharpening jigs, etc.  It is too much of a hassle to always be set up for sharpening.


I have pretty much narrowed this down to the Spyderco ceramics.  I am thinking I will just go all-out and get the medium, fine, and ultra-fine all at once.  I only have a few concerns.


1) The Spyderco stones are supposed to be very low maintenance, but I have read that they do not always show up perfectly flat.  Sure they might be "within spec", but I am not good enough at sharpening yet to know when some things do not matter.  I am trying to eliminate variables.  I figured a good way to flatten the Spydercos, and do periodic flattening, would be an EZE lap diamond plate - maybe a medium?


2) The medium and fine grits come in 2" x 8", and the ultra fine is available in 2" x 8" or 3" x 8".  I am not sure how beneficial the 3" size is for the ultra fine, if the other two stones would only be 2".

3) Is there a benefit to bonding these stones to pieces of glass (glass cut to match the stone sizes) to keep the stones flat (similar to the Shapton glass stones)?  Derek Cohen mentioned that he did this with some of his non-glass Shaptons a few years ago.

4) I could still be swayed to the Shaptons, but it seems they need more flattening maintenance than the Spydercos.  That statement is based on my inferences from reading others' posts.  I could be mistaken on that one.


Fire a way with comments.  Please.

Steve
Steve
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#12
  Re: About ready to spring for the Spyderco ceramic stones... by arnman (I have been on the c...)
Steve, I have the Medium and Ultra Fine Spyderco in 2" x 8". You do not also need the Fine.

I freehand plane and chisel blades on these stones and have not missed a 3" width stone. Freehanding allows one to work sideways and diagonally. 2" is marginal only for wide blades with a honing guide.

Both my stones needed to be flattened when they arrived. They are all very slightly dished, which is no doubt due to the baking process in their manufacture. I used 275 grit and then 600 grit Eze-lap diamond stones. Neither have needed any flattening since (about 5 years ago).

I spritz them with a little soapy water rather than use them dry (as the manufacturer states they may be used). Some lubrication is needed to carry away swarf. When I use them at wood shows or demonstrations, I carry a couple of small soaked sponges to wipe them down. The set up is very user-friendly.

I clean them with a little Simple Green and a plastic scouring pad. Quick and easy.

No need to epoxy them to glass. They do not move and do not wear appreciably.

I do still use green compound on hardwood after the Ultra Fine. Possibly not needed, but it takes no extra time.

Regards from Perth

Derek
Articles on furniture building, shop made tools and tool reviews at http://www.inthewoodshop.com
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#13
  Re: About ready to spring for the Spyderco ceramic stones... by arnman (I have been on the c...)
I've been using Shaptons 1,000  4,000  8,000 for ten years.  I use wet/dry sandpaper on float glass to true them.  I have an Ohishi 10,000 that I use to polish.  I've found that using the stones evenly can/does reduce the need to flatten them.  Once sharpened, I use a compound to charge a honing board for maintenance sharpening after each use.......thus rarely have to use the stones.  I've never used spyderco but my Shaptons changed my attitude about sharpening and improved my work immensely.  I ran the gamut from scary sharp to tormek & worksharp..... nothing is easier nor more satisfying for me than to reach in the drawer, pull out a stone or two and put a sharp edge back on a tool....with only a ten minute break from working on my project.

good luck & keep us posted,

Don
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#14
  Re: RE: About ready to spring for the Spyderco ceramic stones... by Derek Cohen (Steve, I have the Me...)
(09-09-2019, 02:15 AM)Derek Cohen Wrote: I have the Medium and Ultra Fine Spyderco in 2" x  8". You do not also need the Fine.

Both my stones needed to be flattened when they arrived. They are all very slightly dished, which is no doubt due to the baking process in their manufacture. I used 275 grit and then 600 grit Eze-lap diamond stones. Neither have needed any flattening since (about 5 years ago).

Derek, Thanks for the feedback.  I have read your posts and I knew you skipped the Fine.  I was planning to make a board to fit the top of my sink (in the shop), with a spot to lock in each stone.  Similar to Paul Sellars.  I thought this would be a good time to allow for the space each stone will take up.  I was also hoping to save wear on the Ultra Fine by not skipping the Fine.

I don't think Spyderco gives the grits for the stones, so if I am remembering some other comments I have read (from Amazon reviews), using the Medium, Fine, and Ultra Fine would be similar to the 1000, 4000, 8000 - similar to what Don mentioned he uses for the Shaptons.  Can you comment on the grit progression of jumping from Medium to Ultra Fine?


Also, the EZE lap stones are the same length of the Spyderco stones.  Is there any technique involved in using an 8" long stone to flatten another 8" long stone?


Steve
Steve
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#15
  Re: About ready to spring for the Spyderco ceramic stones... by arnman (I have been on the c...)
Steve, I have 10" Eze-lap diamond stones. The Medium and Extra Fine took about 15 minutes each to lap flat.

I do not see any point in the Fine stone - the jump from Medium (2000-3000?) to Ultra Fine (8000?) is easy. Plus, these stones do not wear, so you will not be saving any thickness - just making more work for yourself. I add either a very worn Eze-lap 600 grit or a Shapton Pro 1000 as the first media, and then follow with the Medium and Ultra Fine.

I do not attach any stones to a board. I think that this just limits the way you can use them - sometimes I run them away from me, and at other times place them across. Paul Sellers only uses them in one orientation as he has only a single way of sharpening.




Shapton Pro 1000, Sigma 6000 and 13000, Spyderco Medium (blue box) and Ultra Fine (black box), green compund on planed hardwood. Eze-lap diamond stones and a Shapton diamond lapping plate. A couple of honing guides (Veritas and LN) for BU planes. The BD planes and chisels are hollow ground on an 8" half-speed grinder with 180 and 80 grit CBN wheels.

Regards from Perth

Derek
Articles on furniture building, shop made tools and tool reviews at http://www.inthewoodshop.com
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#16
  Re: RE: About ready to spring for the Spyderco ceramic stones... by Derek Cohen (Steve, I have 10" Ez...)
(09-09-2019, 12:49 PM)Derek Cohen Wrote: Steve, I have 10" Eze-lap diamond stones. The Medium and Extra Fine took about 15 minutes each to lap flat.

Derek,
Hopefully this is my last round of questions.  I found I can get the EZE Lap 250 in a 2.5 inch x 11.5 inch size (121C).

1) Would you recommend that as a lapping stone, or did you just use what you had?
 
2) I will be getting the EZE Lap new, so I suppose it will need a break-in period to knock off the high spots (I experienced that with my EZE Lap 600 stone).  I guess I could try to break it in by flattening an old chisel before taking it to the Spyderco stones.

3) After using it to flatten the Spyderco stones, is it still functional as a coarse diamond stone for other tasks?
Steve
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#17
  Re: RE: About ready to spring for the Spyderco ceramic stones... by arnman ([quote='Derek Cohen'...)
(09-09-2019, 01:54 PM)arnman Wrote: Derek,
Hopefully this is my last round of questions.  I found I can get the EZE Lap 250 in a 2.5 inch x 11.5 inch size (121C).

1) Would you recommend that as a lapping stone, or did you just use what you had?
 
2) I will be getting the EZE Lap new, so I suppose it will need a break-in period to knock off the high spots (I experienced that with my EZE Lap 600 stone).  I guess I could try to break it in by flattening an old chisel before taking it to the Spyderco stones.

3) After using it to flatten the Spyderco stones, is it still functional as a coarse diamond stone for other tasks?

Steve, longer is better when it comes to lapping plates. 

After using the Eze-laps to joint the Spydercos, they have continued to work on steel blades. The 250 is not as flat as the 600. It has the very faintest of a hollow at the centre. The 600 came very flat. This was not an issue with lapping as it was the 600 that finished the task.

Regards from Perth

Derek
Articles on furniture building, shop made tools and tool reviews at http://www.inthewoodshop.com
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#18
  Re: About ready to spring for the Spyderco ceramic stones... by arnman (I have been on the c...)
(09-08-2019, 09:49 PM)arnman Wrote: I have been on the cusp of buying a set of stones for some time.  I would read up on the different options, then I would get busy, and some time would go by...The process would repeat several times.  Until now.  I feel like my work is not as good as it can be because of my sharpening deficiency.  I have all the scary sharp sandpaper, glass, sharpening jigs, etc.  It is too much of a hassle to always be set up for sharpening.


I have pretty much narrowed this down to the Spyderco ceramics.  I am thinking I will just go all-out and get the medium, fine, and ultra-fine all at once.  I only have a few concerns.


1) The Spyderco stones are supposed to be very low maintenance, but I have read that they do not always show up perfectly flat.  Sure they might be "within spec", but I am not good enough at sharpening yet to know when some things do not matter.  I am trying to eliminate variables.  I figured a good way to flatten the Spydercos, and do periodic flattening, would be an EZE lap diamond plate - maybe a medium?


2) The medium and fine grits come in 2" x 8", and the ultra fine is available in 2" x 8" or 3" x 8".  I am not sure how beneficial the 3" size is for the ultra fine, if the other two stones would only be 2".

3) Is there a benefit to bonding these stones to pieces of glass (glass cut to match the stone sizes) to keep the stones flat (similar to the Shapton glass stones)?  Derek Cohen mentioned that he did this with some of his non-glass Shaptons a few years ago.

4) I could still be swayed to the Shaptons, but it seems they need more flattening maintenance than the Spydercos.  That statement is based on my inferences from reading others' posts.  I could be mistaken on that one.


Fire a way with comments.  Please.

Steve

If you are looking for low maintenance, I think you should be considering diamonds.  Ceramics are pretty slow cutting and too fine to repair damage or tackle really dull blades.

My recommendation for low maintenance would be diasharp (XX) (120grit), X (220), F(600) and E(1200). I'd then get a ultrafine spyderco (2000).
Edit: Note this is not the set Sharpening Supplies offers at a discount. Their set includes 220, 325, 600 and 1200. I don't feel I need 220 and 325. One or the other is fine and I prefer coarser. If you have a grinder, maybe you could skip the XX stone. I like it, but that may be just my preference for never grinding if possible. And this all depends on whether you are restoring old tools (get the XX plate) or are using new tools (in which case just get 3 plates 220, 600, and 1200, plus the 2000 grit as a finishing stone).

3x8s are very nice in the diasharps.  I'd get 2x8 in the ceramic.

One more thing - I have and like the magnetic holder thing for the diasharps. You could probably make one pretty easily as well. I wouldn't waste your time with the little rubber feet. The surface of the plates are too low for me and the feet quickly rolled off and left me chasing the plates around my workbench.

I know guys like water stones.  I've used all of them at one time or another.  The harder matrix stones are nicer for people who sharpen knives, carving tools, small tools (like molding planes) and radiused plane irons. Water stones are probably as nice, maybe nicer, not sure, for folks working wide flat surfaces and straight edged tools.
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#19
  Re: About ready to spring for the Spyderco ceramic stones... by arnman (I have been on the c...)
Fall is just starting around here....and I am already for Spring to arrive.  

Too much time spent "polishing"...not enough time spent building something......would rather spend the cash on lumber, anyway....
   
I seem to have the sharpening part under control.....
Show me a picture, I'll build a project from that
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#20
  Re: RE: About ready to spring for the Spyderco ceramic stones... by adamcherubini ([quote='arnman' pid=...)
(09-10-2019, 12:55 PM)adamcherubini Wrote: If you are looking for low maintenance, I think you should be considering diamonds.  Ceramics are pretty slow cutting and too fine to repair damage or tackle really dull blades.

Thanks for your comments.  I did not state this in my original post, but I have two (relatively fine) diamond stones already.  I also have a tormek, which I really like for establishing the bevel and grinding out damage.  I can get sharp on the tormek, but in my experience finishing up the edge on something else gives the best result. 

I will probably be getting the Spyderco medium and ultrafine, and also a coarse diamond stone to lap the Spyderco stones, based on Derek's recommendations.  I just found an extensive discussion on this topic from around 2014 at another site which I never really even visited before.  This "combination" seems consistent with the recommendations from that discussion - but I have not made it all the way through that yet (it is about 10 or 12 pages long!).
Steve
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