Replace Casement Window with Aluminum Siding

[brnhornt]

Hi All,

I'm looking for some resource/education help.  I replaced the windows in my old house years ago, however those were old double-hung's and it was easy enough to remove the stops, and the sashes and then just drop the vinyl replacement windows in.  In my new house, I will be replacing 30-some year old wooden casement windows.  These will all need to be a full removal.  I'm leaning towards Pella wood, or Andersen fibrex.  I've searched a bunch and I keep coming up with links and videos of vinyl replacement....but nothing specific to the right steps in my case.  

Here are some shots of one of the windows that I need to replace if it helps:

   

   

   

   

   

Thanks for any help!
Kevin

Oh....and not to derail my own thread, but I did have Renewal by Andersen out and was floored at their cost.  Had a couple of other contractors out and several of them are recommending vinyl due to costs.  Hence my thought that if it's something I can learn and then do a good job at, I might as well take the cost savings and install a high quality window myself.  Anyone have a real-world preference between the Pella and Andersen products?

[Woodenfish]

Your window replacement looks pretty standard. You really want to keep the existing flashing on top of the window during replacement. As far as windows go and I am no expert but i have learned that window manufacturers have standard sizes and custom sizes with a significant upcharge. These sizes can also differ with the material they are made from. When I had shopped for windows I found those fiberex windows by Anderson to be available in limited standard sizes that would not be accommodating to my home.

So many factors in windows, homes, neighborhoods, expectations of potential buyers, personal budgets and time planned on living in home to make a strong recommendation. I do see a lot of homeowners replacing wood windows that began to rot with vinyl. There Is a huge spread of quality and loss of glass due to increased framing in most vinyl window manufacturers. Performance, quality or price pick two.

[Robert Adams]

If you want wood go for it. Personally I wouldn't go with wood even if it was the same price as vinyl. Wood is nice but it will rot again. I would only do wood if it was a histerical house which I would never own. 


       If you go vinyl there is very little difference in overall quality between a $100 window and a $500 window. There is an extremely minimal difference in efficiency. The difference is in the style of the frame. A single hung window will be more efficient and stronger than a double hung just because it has less gaps to leak and it's more ridgid. 

       Now if you really want to go with a good window that is strong efficient and functional go with a european window. They are very nice. I like the ones that operate as a tilt in window or as a door. They are the same price in Europe as the crummy US style windows are here but way better. The regular ones are vinyl and the heavy duty ones are aluminum. The frames are insulated, double and triple air and water seals etc. In German hardware stores the stock size run about $100 euro and up while here the US ones start as low as around 80$ which puts you in the same ballpark. I priced out a few at a store in Greece last week that was right next to the door to our apartment we were renting and I could get a 36x60 with insulated frame for 150 euro, less if I bought more than one.

           To get them in the US there are companies making them here now but they want stupid prices for them. Here is one supplier that will order them from europe and has some standard sizes in stock but the shipping etc prices bring that cost up. http://www.europeantiltturnwindows.com/w...-in-stock/ 





         As for changing the windows out yours is just like all the videos that this old house etc does. Windows are easy to do on sided houses which is why TOH never shows you the PITA it is to do on a brisk house).

[jteneyck]

Seems like vinyl would be appropriate for a vinyl sided house.  But as was said, a lot will depend on each manufacturer's available stock sizes.  My house used Anderson wooden casement windows when it was built, but I found a better fit with Pella aluminum clad replacements than Anderson when I replaced them 25 years ago.  No regrets on the Pella replacemnts, either; they have held up exceedingly well and still seal tightly.  

I far prefer the Euro style windows as RA discussed, but the fact that they open inward is their one short coming for many situations.  But with most everyone having central AC these days how or even whether a window opens is much less of a concern than it was in earlier times.  Still a big deal in Europe though where central air is still rare in many countries there.    

John

[Snipe Hunter]

My background with windows:
I've sold and installed Anderson, Marvin, Pella and various vinyl windows.
Now I'm a home inspector and I get to see all of these products in various stages of their lifespan.

I really don't care for vinyl windows. They may have a life-time warranty but most vinyl window companies disappear at about the same time the windows start breaking down. If a claim is made, it doesn't take much for the company to deny the claim: Window not registered when installed, installed incorrectly etc etc etc. Or the Life-Time Warranty is pro-rated at 15 years (the expected "Life-Time") so if they do pay out, it may be pennies on the dollar and labor isn't included.
Most of the problems I see with vinyl windows are:
* Bad balances but they can be replaced fairly easily.
* Bad thermal seals so the glass is fogged.
* Severe warping from expansion and contraction. This can cause pressure on the glass and lead to failed thermal seals. Warping sashes causing air leaks between the sashes and frames. Binding sashes and sashes that won't latch because the frame shrunk.
* Cheap weather stripping that detaches between the frame and sashes..
* Broken latches, stripped screws in the vinyl.

I've never seen an old Andersen Renewal/Fiberglass replacement so I can't say how they hold up.

If money was no object and I knew I wasn't leaving the house for a long time, I'd put in Marvin or Andersen wood windows. Marvin have extruded aluminum exterior cladding and Andersen uses a vinyl cladding. If you live near the coast (salty air), don't buy an aluminum cladding window. Wood windows expand and contract much less than vinyl so those problems are eliminated with wood.

If I were to install Casements, like the picture above. I'd buy Andersen. Because if or when the crank and or latches fail, parts are easy to get. Nobody stocks old parts for old windows like Andersen and you can order them through Home Depot. Andersen Casements hold up very well. So do Marvin but parts aren't as readily available and tend to be pricey.

If money is an issue, and I wasn't installing Casements: I'd stick with Pella Double hung windows in stock sizes if at all possible. I believe Lowes stocks the 250 series at a very reasonable price. (it may be called something different now but it's the same window).They don't use balances, they use a vinyl seal on both sides of the sash with springs behind them to hold the sash in place. I've never seen one wear out. The windows are wood with aluminum cladding. The nailing flange folds flat to the window can be installed from the inside out, That's a huge help for 2nd story windows. Then fold out the flange and nail it in. Pella sells (through Lowes) an inexpensive Mull Hit to join windows together. I paid about $15 for the mull kit. So for the money and ease of installation, I'd buy the stock size Pellas at Lowes

Aluminum Siding:
It's very difficult to take off and re-install without damaging it. If at all possible I would buy windows for the existing opening and carefully cut the caulk away from the existing brick-mold. Remove the brick-mold. Once the new window is in, make your own trim using vinyl board and cut to fit. cut a grove in the board to cover the edge of the aluminum siding. it will act like "J" channel. The previous installer cut corners by caulking the siding to the brick-mold. He should have used a J-Channel but it's hard to install J-Channel without removing and damaging the aluminum. If you can't find vinyl board thick enough to make a groove that fits under and over the siding, you may have to double it up.

We're in the long process of remodeling our house... full gut. I'm replacing some windows (With Pella Double Hung from Lowes) because of the changes to the rooms, not because they were bad. I pulled off the siding and re-installed it. I did this knowing that we will eventually re-side the house. Aluminum siding never goes back on without problems. All the windows will be replaced when we re-side.

[Gary G™]

The windows in my home are Vetter aluminum clad—beautiful wood on the inside, aluminum on the outside. Argon gas, double hung windows.
My understanding is Vetter no longer sells windows; Peachtree was a sister company.
Great looking; great functioning.

[Robert Adams]

Seems like vinyl would be appropriate for a vinyl sided house.  But as was said, a lot will depend on each manufacturer's available stock sizes.  My house used Anderson wooden casement windows when it was built, but I found a better fit with Pella aluminum clad replacements than Anderson when I replaced them 25 years ago.  No regrets on the Pella replacemnts, either; they have held up exceedingly well and still seal tightly.  

I far prefer the Euro style windows as RA discussed, but the fact that they open inward is their one short coming for many situations.  But with most everyone having central AC these days how or even whether a window opens is much less of a concern than it was in earlier times.  Still a big deal in Europe though where central air is still rare in many countries there.    

John

           Very true about the inward opening as that is often not an option in many houses. I also forgot to mention that they rarely ever have screens on them as well. They don't have insect problems in Europe like we do here. At least out of all the time I have spent there I rarely see any and you can eat outside and never see a fly or mosquito or anything but they do preventative aerial spraying there that we do not do in the US. 
        Also the euro windows can be bought with an exterior roll shade that is great for security/weather and provides a perfect black out. Last year the first night we were in Greece I made the mistake of closing the shade all the way. With the awful jet lag..... I woke up and saw there was no daylight and figured it was still early and went back to sleep. I woke back up checked my phone and it was 10:30 in the morning.. That 8 hour time change is a royal pain..

             Here in TX we have no need for operable windows so I went with single hung on our house. I would prefer to put in no operable windows but.... We only have a few weeks of the year it's nice enough to open the windows and at that time the pollen and blowing dirt comes in so why have windows that open? Also most houses have black out or other drapes that block the sunlight from coming in as much as possible. Which brings up that windows in houses here are huge. Every room has at least 2 36x60 windows and living rooms will have 72"x72" or bigger. I don't understand why when the sun is the enemy.
               It's "fall" and it was 97* here and will be mid 90s and lows of 75... Since LOML is making it hard to move I am looking for a job that will get me out of TX and somewhere with reasonable weather for the summer. Thinking the arctic circle as it's more hospitable there...

[daddo]

The glass looks fine. Can you just save the glass and make new composite frames or get aluminum channel?

[brnhornt]

If money was no object and I knew I wasn't leaving the house for a long time, I'd put in Marvin or Andersen wood windows. Marvin have extruded aluminum exterior cladding and Andersen uses a vinyl cladding. If you live near the coast (salty air), don't buy an aluminum cladding window. Wood windows expand and contract much less than vinyl so those problems are eliminated with wood.

If I were to install Casements, like the picture above. I'd buy Andersen. Because if or when the crank and or latches fail, parts are easy to get. Nobody stocks old parts for old windows like Andersen and you can order them through Home Depot. Andersen Casements hold up very well. So do Marvin but parts aren't as readily available and tend to be pricey.

If money is an issue, and I wasn't installing Casements: I'd stick with Pella Double hung windows in stock sizes if at all possible. I believe Lowes stocks the 250 series at a very reasonable price. (it may be called something different now but it's the same window).They don't use balances, they use a vinyl seal on both sides of the sash with springs behind them to hold the sash in place. I've never seen one wear out. The windows are wood with aluminum cladding. The nailing flange folds flat to the window can be installed from the inside out, That's a huge help for 2nd story windows. Then fold out the flange and nail it in. Pella sells (through Lowes) an inexpensive Mull Hit to join windows together. I paid about $15 for the mull kit. So for the money and ease of installation, I'd buy the stock size Pellas at Lowes

Aluminum Siding:
It's very difficult to take off and re-install without damaging it. If at all possible I would buy windows for the existing opening and carefully cut the caulk away from the existing brick-mold. Remove the brick-mold. Once the new window is in, make your own trim using vinyl board and cut to fit. cut a grove in the board to cover the edge of the aluminum siding. it will act like "J" channel. The previous installer cut corners by caulking the siding to the brick-mold. He should have used a J-Channel but it's hard to install J-Channel without removing and damaging the aluminum. If you can't find vinyl board thick enough to make a groove that fits under and over the siding, you may have to double it up.

We're in the long process of remodeling our house... full gut. I'm replacing some windows (With Pella Double Hung from Lowes) because of the changes to the rooms, not because they were bad. I pulled off the siding and re-installed it. I did this knowing that we will eventually re-side the house. Aluminum siding never goes back on without problems. All the windows will be replaced when we re-side.

We are definitely moving away from the casement windows.  I don't like the fact that they open into the weather.  I'd love to be able to use stock sizes, but I don't think I'm going to be that lucky...most of the windows in this house seem to be custom sized, but it's something to consider and I'll remind myself of that when I start measuring.  The other issue that I will have to deal with is that most of these windows are very low to the floor....meaning they'll have to be tempered glass. (at least the bottom sash)

Maybe it's wrong....but I just have in my head that vinyl windows are "cheap."  I mean that like this....my first house.  Postage stamp colonial.  Typical first time homebuyer kind of house.  Perfect for vinyl replacement windows.  If I were to be looking to buy that house...I'd see the windows and say "yep, that makes sense."  However in this house.  A family house.  Frankly....a nicer house...I feel like I would be doing it a disservice and going the cheaper route by installing vinyl.  If I were buying this house today and the owner had installed vinyl windows I'd be thinking "man...they went el cheapo on the windows....I wonder what other renovations were skimped on."  I'm completely willing to admit that thought process is flawed...but that's where my head is today.

Snipe - those kinds of details are exactly what I am looking for.  Do you know of any resources that describe out step by step things like dealing with the brick molding and aluminum siding?  Or maybe I just make a project of it here.  I'll perform exploratory surgery by removing a window and posting pictures here asking for the next/right steps


Thanks all for the advice!
Kevin

[brnhornt]

You really want to keep the existing flashing on top of the window during replacement. 

Thanks!  Do you mean the bit of aluminum that is covering the top brick molding?  I'd have to get a ladder to see the top....but if it's glued on, how would I go about trying to keep that?