The Continuing Saga of Sharpening the Saw formerly known as the Wally Saw
#11
  
The Continuing Saga of Sharpening the Saw formerly known as the Wally Saw

In our last episode, I was dealing with a 15 ppi DT saw that was in need of sharpening.  I decided to give it a whirl and I began by jointing the saw with a mill person file, followed by sharpening with a 4” XX slim taper grobet file I picked up at LN years ago.  I ended up with nice shiny teeth and tested the saw in a piece of 3/4” cherry. It cut amazingly well, although it tended to want to wander to the left.  I sharpening all teeth from the same side of the saw, which no doubt left a burr on the exit side.  A single swipe with a fine ceramic stone fixed the steering issues. and the saw cut even better.  Then I noticed that the saw was binding, and after measuring the set, I realized that most of the set was gone.  I gave setting a try with a Stanley 42x which had been modified for DT teeth (thanks to Pete Taran) and after trying a few inches of teeth, decided to call it a day.  

After giving it some thought, I thought it might be time to joint the saw completely down to the saw plate and start by re-toothing.  I have essentially no metal working skills, aside from filing the occasional lawn mower blade.  It seemed the most way to get rid of the existing teeth was to make use of the side of the Tormek wheel. This ended up working exceptionally well, and after getting most the grinding done on the Tormek, I finished with the mill file to get a nice fresh edge on the saw.  

A quick trip over to Isaac Smith’s Blackburn Tool website yielded a template for the new teeth.  I remember that Derek mentioned he learned sharpening on a 15 tpi DT saw, so I was left with no choice but to go with the 17 tpi template (in for a penny, in for a pound).  I removed the saw plate from the handle, sprayed adhesive on the saw plate and on a strip of template I had already cut to size with an exacto knife, and adhered the template to the saw plate. Easy/peasy.  

   
   
   
Now the fun started.  Well these lines are very close.  I first started to cut on each line with a needle file.  I was not happy with my ability to split the line for each tooth, so I ended up first cutting a slit at each line with the exacto knife. Then I took the file and made a couple of short passes at each point.  This seemed to work.  Some mineral spirits and a razor blade made short work of removing the template and the glue.  So far, so good.
   


Here is where it got interesting.  I worked my way from the back to the front of the saw plate, making a single pass in each of the marked gullets.  To my surprise, it only took 3 or 4 complete passes to form the teeth.  Unfortunately, this is where I noticed that something had gone horribly wrong.  I thought I had made successive cuts at every mark.  Unfortunately, I must have missed a few, as is evident from the pictures.  I assume that somewhere in the initial marking or subsequent filing, I simply missed some of the teeth.  I have decided to start the re-toothing operation all over again, but at least I know now how to approach it and it should not take to long to get to a usable toothed plate. Stay tuned for more fun and surprises!

   
   
Reply
#12
  Re: The Continuing Saga of Sharpening the Saw formerly known as the Wally Saw by Philip1231 (The Continuing Saga ...)
I have been there, done that!

If I'm not selling a saw, I'll actually live with some tooth irregularities.  They can still cut like demons.

I did have a few Spear & Jackson backsaws that I fitted with thinner-than-factory plates.  For the initial tooth-divots, I laid them in with a Dremel cutoff wheel.   The things we do if we're not production tooth-cutting houses...

Chris
Chris
Reply
#13
  Re: The Continuing Saga of Sharpening the Saw formerly known as the Wally Saw by Philip1231 (The Continuing Saga ...)
Before acquiring a retoothing punch, I cut new teeth much like that using Isaac's templates. I found that using a knife-edge needle file to start the gullet notches worked well, as I could see the line underneath the file. With a conventional three-sided file, the line is not as easy to see.
Bob Page
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
In da U.P. of Michigan
Reply
#14
  Re: The Continuing Saga of Sharpening the Saw formerly known as the Wally Saw by Philip1231 (The Continuing Saga ...)
(10-22-2019, 05:21 PM)Philip1231 Wrote: The Continuing Saga of Sharpening the Saw formerly known as the Wally Saw

In our last episode, ....
 I have decided to start the re-toothing operation all over again, but at least I know now how to approach it and it should not take to long to get to a usable toothed plate. Stay tuned for more fun and surprises!

Fun and surprises? I dont' think so. I don't think you are going about this the right way. I would start by learning to sharpen a reasonably sharp 6pt hand saw. Lightly joint, then sharpen. I think there are skills you are missing and your approach is wrong or...at the least,...the template is a very difficult way to tooth a saw. I never used a template. Pretty sure LN uses a CNC mill. I suspect a bunch of others use some sort of machine. I filed every saw by hand. Not bragging (as if anyone would care) just saying, it can be done that way. But you need a little skill with your file. I'd work with an existing decent saw until you get more comfortable with your files.
Reply
#15
  Re: The Continuing Saga of Sharpening the Saw formerly known as the Wally Saw by Philip1231 (The Continuing Saga ...)
I have re-toothed several saws using templates. They are helpful. Frankly, I think that one would struggle to create the size teeth wanted without something like that.

In my opinion, the essential focus needs to be on spacing the teeth (the desired rake and angle - rip or crosscut - is a given). Spacing the teeth is a fluid process whereby you move them back and forth very slightly, adjusting the gap and position by eye. You are guided by the shine at the tip of each tooth, and the choice is there whether you file the face or the back of the tooth to move it one way or the other. When there is no shine left, that tooth is done. When the shine is off all the teeth, the plate is filed.

Adding set comes next. You may want to even the set with Mike Wenzloff’s paper tip if setting a dovetail saw (I do this and use a gennou on the cast iron surface of my bandsaw table). Then I lightly joint the teeth one more time to ensure all is level, and touch up the teeth again (removing the shine). Done.

Regards from Perth

Derek
Articles on furniture building, shop made tools and tool reviews at http://www.inthewoodshop.com
Reply
#16
  Re: RE: The Continuing Saga of Sharpening the Saw formerly known as the Wally Saw by C. in Indy (I have been there, d...)
If it was just one tooth that was sub-standard I'd go with it, but at this point I am way beyond one tooth.

(10-22-2019, 06:04 PM)C. in Indy Wrote: I have been there, done that!

If I'm not selling a saw, I'll actually live with some tooth irregularities.  They can still cut like demons.

I did have a few Spear & Jackson backsaws that I fitted with thinner-than-factory plates.  For the initial tooth-divots, I laid them in with a Dremel cutoff wheel.   The things we do if we're not production tooth-cutting houses...

Chris
Reply
#17
  Re: RE: The Continuing Saga of Sharpening the Saw formerly known as the Wally Saw by enjuneer (Before acquiring a r...)
Great suggestion: I will have to pick up one of those.


(10-22-2019, 06:17 PM)enjuneer Wrote: Before acquiring a retoothing punch, I cut new teeth much like that using Isaac's templates. I found that using a knife-edge needle file to start the gullet notches worked well, as I could see the line underneath the file. With a conventional three-sided file, the line is not as easy to see.
Reply
#18
  Re: RE: The Continuing Saga of Sharpening the Saw formerly known as the Wally Saw by adamcherubini ([quote='Philip1231' ...)
Sage advice indeed. I may end up going that route, but I thought it would be interesting to see what I could accomplish with the only broken saw I owned. At this point, I would not dare touch any of my saws that have been sharpened expertly by their respective makers. I may never get to the point where I can pick up any saw and sharpen it: but that's not the point. I just want to learn the details of sharpening, and see where it takes me.


(10-23-2019, 01:12 PM)adamcherubini Wrote: Fun and surprises?  I dont' think so. I don't think you are going about this the right way.  I would start by learning to sharpen a reasonably sharp 6pt hand saw.  Lightly joint, then sharpen. I think there are skills you are missing and your approach is wrong or...at the least,...the template is a very difficult way to tooth a saw. I never used a template.  Pretty sure LN uses a CNC mill.  I suspect a bunch of others use some sort of machine. I filed every saw by hand.  Not bragging (as if anyone would care) just saying, it can be done that way. But you need a little skill with your file. I'd work with an existing decent saw until you get more comfortable with your files.
Reply
#19
  Re: RE: The Continuing Saga of Sharpening the Saw formerly known as the Wally Saw by Derek Cohen (I have re-toothed se...)
OK; new information here. I've been filing straight down at each tooth mark: I make a pass with the file on every tooth, then repeat until the flats are gone. I have not attempted to apply more force either toward or away from the the tooth as you mention but I will experiment with that before I re-grind and start round two of re-toothing.  Somehow I had the idea that if you could make every pass of the file across the saw plate identical (side force/down force/angle/etc) and marched down the saw plate filing each tooth in turn, you would end up with perfectly spaced teeth. I will have to work on the part where some teeth will have to be finessed forward or backward as necessary.  Good input: Thanks!


Derek wrote:

"In my opinion, the essential focus needs to be on spacing the teeth (the desired rake and angle - rip or crosscut - is a given). Spacing the teeth is a fluid process whereby you move them back and forth very slightly, adjusting the gap and position by eye. You are guided by the shine at the tip of each tooth, and the choice is there whether you file the face or the back of the tooth to move it one way or the other. When there is no shine left, that tooth is done. When the shine is off all the teeth, the plate is filed.

Adding set comes next. You may want to even the set with Mike Wenzloff’s paper tip if setting a dovetail saw (I do this and use a gennou on the cast iron surface of my bandsaw table). Then I lightly joint the teeth one more time to ensure all is level, and touch up the teeth again (removing the shine). Done.

Regards from Perth

Derek"
Reply
#20
  Re: The Continuing Saga of Sharpening the Saw formerly known as the Wally Saw by Philip1231 (The Continuing Saga ...)
Hi Phil,

this teeth look much better then the one I did the one time rettothing wit an paper pattern.
I use metal pattern claming close to the blade.
Available pattern are metal saw blades in 18 tpi or 32 tpi (file every second tooth for 16).

Cheers
Pedder
Reply


Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: 1 Guest(s)