Shooter Conundrums
#11
  
I am considering looking for a plane for shooting and need some help choosing. The Veritas BU jack has a reputation for shooting ... and it fits my price. But....

I think I got one of the early Veritas bevel up planes, the LA Smoother.  And, a handful of blades ... at 2-inch width. The LAS is too light for any shooting task. I don't use it much because it is an odd fit in my hand--maybe a traditional style handle can help. I had originally hoped the blades were the same, but the jack's is 2-1/4 wide. LV got standard blades right, after the LAS one-off blades. I have Stanley's that will cover for coarse stock prep, even smoothing, but they are no fun for shooting. For me! So the Veritas Jack is really only going to the shooting board. However, it may collect dust like its predecessor, the LAS. 

I am concerned. Options?
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#12
  Re: Shooter Conundrums by hbmcc (I am [s]considering[...)
(11-22-2019, 11:51 PM)hbmcc Wrote: I am considering looking for a plane for shooting and need some help choosing. The Veritas BU jack has a reputation for shooting ... and it fits my price. But....

I think I got one of the early Veritas bevel up planes, the LA Smoother.  And, a handful of blades ... at 2-inch width. The LAS is too light for any shooting task. I don't use it much because it is an odd fit in my hand--maybe a traditional style handle can help. I had originally hoped the blades were the same, but the jack's is 2-1/4 wide. LV got standard blades right, after the LAS one-off blades. I have Stanley's that will cover for coarse stock prep, even smoothing, but they are no fun for shooting. For me! So the Veritas Jack is really only going to the shooting board. However, it may collect dust like its predecessor, the LAS. 

I am concerned. Options?

I got the Veritas Shooting Plane about a year ago and cannot sing it's praises loud enough.  I used a Stanley #5 or Clifton #6 to do my shooting for the 20 years prior to that. I tried the LN BU jack but it seemed too lite and I never got good results....I will never reconcile why I waited so long to get a 'real' shooting plane.  The precision, ease of use and sheer joy of using this thing makes it worth the money.



Click For Full-Size Image.
Good Luck,
Don
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#13
  Re: Shooter Conundrums by hbmcc (I am [s]considering[...)
I purchased the LV BU jack when they were first introduced, for the primary purposes of a shooting plane. It’s still one of my favorites. Later I picked up the bevel up smoother from a forum member that does take the same blade, unlike the low angle smoother. I have three different angle blades for two planes. In the past, the jack has been used for anything from a long smoother tp a short jointer. But, 90% of the time It’s used as a shooting plane in my shop.

While the LAJ has worked every time as a shooter, I know the extra mass and design of the shooting plane would be some benefit. I just can’t justify the additional cost over what I already own that has always worked well.
John
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#14
  Re: RE: Shooter Conundrums by jstraw (I purchased the LV B...)
If you don't love your current LV,  sell it and get something you will like.  I bought one of the early LV hand planes -  didn't like the tote, so I sold it and moved on.  I have since bought, and loved, the LV medium shoulder, LV large shoulder, and the LV shooting plane.   The shooting plane has plenty of mass.  While I use it almost exclusively for shooting, on rare occasions I also use it for end grain work.
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#15
  Re: Shooter Conundrums by hbmcc (I am [s]considering[...)
(11-22-2019, 11:51 PM)hbmcc Wrote: I am considering looking for a plane for shooting and need some help choosing. The Veritas BU jack has a reputation for shooting ... and it fits my price. But....

I think I got one of the early Veritas bevel up planes, the LA Smoother.  And, a handful of blades ... at 2-inch width. The LAS is too light for any shooting task. I don't use it much because it is an odd fit in my hand--maybe a traditional style handle can help. I had originally hoped the blades were the same, but the jack's is 2-1/4 wide. LV got standard blades right, after the LAS one-off blades. I have Stanley's that will cover for coarse stock prep, even smoothing, but they are no fun for shooting. For me! So the Veritas Jack is really only going to the shooting board. However, it may collect dust like its predecessor, the LAS. 

I am concerned. Options?

All you wanted to know .... Smile


The LAS does make a useful smoother - it just depends on what you want to use it on. It would be fine for boards up to 3/8" thick. Beyond this you will prefer a plane with more mass.

In my opinion, the Veritas shooting plane (#51 type) is the best dedicated shooter available. The LN #51 is better in some areas, but overall the Veritas is better. You would be happy with either. 

Several years ago, before the Veritas shooting plane was released, I completed a comparison of the LN #51 (which I purchased to replace a Stanley #51 on a Stanley #52 chute board), LN #9 shooter, and Veritas LA Jack. The LN #51 was a standout, but surprisingly the LAJ was preferred to the LN #9. The details are here, along with details on how to use it to get the best from it. In short, if all you use the LAJ for is a shooter, then it is money well spent - yes, you can use any plane to shoot end grain, but a low angle plane is the better style:

http://www.inthewoodshop.com/Furniture/S...pared.html




My review of the LN #51 is here:  http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews...Plane.html




I wrote a head-to-head on the Veritas and LN #51-types:  http://www.inthewoodshop.com/ToolReviews...Plane.html




The notable difference between these shooters is that the Veritas is a BU design and the LN a BD design. This makes a huge difference to edge retention. The Veritas absolutely leaves the LN for dust in this regard. This is not a factor of PM-V11 in the Veritas, as I used both A2 and PM-V11 in both planes.

I have also make a woodie with a low cutting angle (37 degree bed bevel down), and it is wonderful on a ramped shooting board. When considering a shooter, think about the shooting board with which it will be paired: straight blades for a ramped board, and a skewed blade on a flat board. This is ideal, but not necessary for use.




If you plan to use one of the #51-type shooters, it is essential that the shooting board have a side fence as the rear handle is unbalanced ...







Regards from Perth

Derek

p.s. if you read all my articles, above, you will never find the time to use a shooting plane! Smile
Articles on furniture building, shop made tools and tool reviews at http://www.inthewoodshop.com
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#16
  Re: Shooter Conundrums by hbmcc (I am [s]considering[...)
I apologize for the confusing and disjointed ramble in the OP. You folks are far more capable than I at information delivery. 

Thanks Don and JStraw. You helped me realize a dedicated shooter is the solution, even when a third costlier than the BUJ. With cost influencing the decision it's definitely going to be the LV, a Buck Rogers/Millers Falls throwback. Does it varoom like rocket exhaust when going through wood? I need to check Derek's comprehensive reviews for that important comparison. Wink BTW, thanks Derek. I did read one or more of your cited tomes some while back so there will be time for snicking and whooshing ... once I can justify the expense to my penny pinching better half. Your reviews are well worth the time to study.

It's time to sell the LAS. Someone will get a lot of new blades with that one.
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#17
  Re: Shooter Conundrums by hbmcc (I am [s]considering[...)
No mention of the LV miter jack shooting plane? I have it, a LN #9, LN laj with hot dog handle and prefer the LV over the others. Nice mass, though length nowhere near the #51 style planes.
Waiting to grow up beyond being just a member
http://www.metaltech-pm.com
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#18
  Re: Shooter Conundrums by hbmcc (I am [s]considering[...)
Haven't had to even use a shooting board in many a year.. No ...I have one, buried on a shelf, somewhere... Rolleyes
Show me a picture, I'll build a project from that
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#19
  Re: RE: Shooter Conundrums by bandit571 (Haven't had to even ...)
(11-23-2019, 09:04 PM)bandit571 Wrote: Haven't had to even use a shooting board in many a year.. No ...I have one, buried on a shelf, somewhere... Rolleyes

Hi Steve. I hope you are doing better and can get fixed soon! 

Regarding shooters and boards, I got tired of slapping sticks on boards and shooting them with CA to make a temporary version. I actually quit using CA and needing an outlet for the old stuff. So, I need to prove I don't need those sorts of guides ... after I finally use an official version of a board.
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#20
  Re: RE: Shooter Conundrums by bandit571 (Haven't had to even ...)
(11-23-2019, 09:04 PM)bandit571 Wrote: Haven't had to even use a shooting board in many a year.. No ...I have one, buried on a shelf, somewhere... Rolleyes

For me, a shooting board excels in fine tuning drawer sides which are around 1/4" thick (the majority of the drawer sides I make). Yes Some of us work to closer tolerances and prefer square edges. Rolleyes

Regards from Perth

Derek
Articles on furniture building, shop made tools and tool reviews at http://www.inthewoodshop.com
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