Affording good sharpening stones
#61
  Re: Affording good sharpening stones by Robin Dobbie (How do you do it? I ...)
Wouldn't one rub the coarse side of the grader on the wheel to clear it and make it "sharper"? That was the joke. Rubbing two tools on each other to make one or both perform better.

Anyway. I think I see an advantage to leather or MDF over paperboard in strop material. Unskilled vigorous stropping on paperboard can sometimes result in gouges in whatever is under the strop. Don't ask me how I know this.
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#62
  Re: RE: Affording good sharpening stones by Robin Dobbie (Wouldn't one rub the...)
(01-14-2020, 01:50 PM)Robin Dobbie Wrote: Anyway. I think I see an advantage to leather or MDF over paperboard in strop material. Unskilled vigorous stropping on paperboard can sometimes result in gouges in whatever is under the strop. Don't ask me how I know this.

And you can accidentally gouge MDF and leather surfaced strops too. Just takes care and patience.

One other nifty stropping trick is great for shaped blades. Once they are reasonably sharp, use the blade to cut into a close grain wood (soft maple is pretty good for this, but really anything works) to create a carving with that blade's profile. Now you have a nearly perfect strop. Put some compound on the newly carved strop and away you go. Keep in mind, that if you try to glue down leather on that shape, it will alter it and so no longer match.

Side note, knew one old codger that used grocery sack paper followed by white paper as his strop. All his chisels and plane blades were "vintage" laminated steel. Worked well for him.
Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things. -- G. Carlin
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#63
  Re: Affording good sharpening stones by Robin Dobbie (How do you do it? I ...)
Gouging the MDF isn't a big deal because it's scraps. It's what's underneath that'll get bludgeoned with paper. I don't know, but I would think the leather would at least help stop cut-through. The paper doesn't stand a chance because the chisels are sharp enough to shave the tit hairs on a mole rat. Why anyone would wanna do that I don't know.

I was wondering what the abrasive properties of paper were, but this chromium oxide has got to be so much finer. Plus, where to even get paper grocery sacks? Just thinking about them makes me nostalgic!
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#64
  Re: RE: Affording good sharpening stones by Robin Dobbie (Gouging the MDF isn'...)
(01-14-2020, 03:53 PM)Robin Dobbie Wrote: Gouging the MDF isn't a big deal because it's scraps. It's what's underneath that'll get bludgeoned with paper. I don't know, but I would think the leather would at least help stop cut-through. The paper doesn't stand a chance because the chisels are sharp enough to shave the tit hairs on a mole rat. Why anyone would wanna do that I don't know.

I was wondering what the abrasive properties of paper were, but this chromium oxide has got to be so much finer. Plus, where to even get paper grocery sacks? Just thinking about them makes me nostalgic!

The green stuff (chromium oxide) has grits usually in the range of 1.5 to 0.5 micron. If it says "0.5 micron" that usually means that is the AVERAGE FINEST grit present, not the ONLY grit present. That is to say, the grit distribution is a bell curve of sorts.

Typing paper is reasonably abrasive all by itself. Fiddling about with some cheap diamond paste I got through eBay and assuming the grit designations are accurate, I found the house brand copy/inkjet/typing paper from Office Depot to be a bit finer than what the 0.5 micron paste does when that's dabbed onto the paper. But that's getting pretty far into the sharpening weeds for me. Don't typically work that way, was just curious about what the paste could do and it was flippin' cheap to try.  Here's one such eBay seller :https://www.ebay.com/itm/8pc-Diamond-Pol...SwCiRcdSiW  I don't have the stuff here but I'm almost positive what I purchased (claimed) down below 0.5um, 0.3um maybe. Cheap and cheerful in any case.

I get grocery sacks at the grocery store of all places. Don't use them for stropping but they have been useful as temporary backing material when playing with veneers, trash containers and various other things in the shop.

And a sharp chisel or plane blade will wreck havoc on any strop if it digs in. Leather, MDF, palm of your hand (technically leather just not particularly well tanned), etc.
Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things. -- G. Carlin
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#65
  Re: RE: Affording good sharpening stones by Timberwolf ([quote='Robin Dobbie...)
(01-13-2020, 09:30 AM)Timberwolf Wrote: ..................
BOTH.........I have always been obsessed with sharpening since I was a boy, and have been experimenting with different methods for many years. First starting with muslin buffs on a bench grinder..I have many different machines..., some of which I cobbled together..Have a Worksharp, a Veritas MK!!, Tormek, Jet wet-wheel, grizzly upright 73" belt grinder, two slo-speed 30" belt grinders, a 30" belt grinder from HF and a 42I vintage 42" belt grinder, and a Foley diamond grinder for HSS and carbide...Also use leather wheels for power stropping, which I made...I guess I should count the machines someday..... Crazy I will post a photo later of one I made and use most often. I will say that power stropping, when done correctly, produces the sharpest edges I have ever seen in the shortest amount of time. BUT done incorrectly, it can ruin an edge even faster!!!!.It's a technique that must be understood and practiced correctly each time.

Can I send you my tools to be sharpened? They keep growing like rabbits; and take longer to get sharp. I have 11 chisels coming from Japan that need to be tuned up, and that takes ages to do.

I have always considered myself obsessed with sharpening ... but ... NO WAY, Horsey!!
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#66
  Re: RE: Affording good sharpening stones by Rob Young ([quote='hbmcc' pid='...)
(01-13-2020, 02:27 PM)Rob Young Wrote: Have you tried rubbing the tools on each other?

Of course! Set them up like an "X" and run the third edge through them. Then Switch...
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#67
  Re: RE: Affording good sharpening stones by AHill ([quote='hbmcc' pid='...)
(01-13-2020, 03:52 PM)AHill Wrote: You need three stones to do that.  If one of the two stones isn't flat, rubbing them together will create two stones that aren't flat.  They do make flattening stones.  I use a diamond plate, which retains its flatness over time.  Others use coarser grit sandpaper mounted a granite plate.  It's not necessary to buy duplicates of any stones you have.

Just parroting the author who made the comment. 

I should dig through my twenty-five pounds of stone for duplicate coarse ones and check. 

But, in the interim, how do you claim one can't flatten the other when that is what you are doing? 

I have one of those things Robin refers to as bricks for flattening. So I use it. First thing, it will contaminate the finer ~1000 grit stone. That means scrub, rinse, scrub, rinse, repeat.... Then, the flattening stone will go wampus, according to your premise. Now, what? 

My understanding, which I specifically mentioned, is that most people wait too long to flatten stones. These are also coarse water stones of matched grit--and I guess, manufacturer. The stones typically dish in the field, so one rubs the two at their perimeters. 

Finer stones are a different matter.

The million dollar question: How does one rub two plates of glass into telescope mirrors? Some science nerds I ran around with in school did just that.
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#68
  Re: RE: Affording good sharpening stones by hbmcc ([quote='AHill' pid='...)
I was taught to use two stones by a colleague in 1967. I use this method sometimes. We don't need three stones because we think about what we are doing. We don't just mindlessly rub stones. 

We don't need flattening plates or diamond plates or granite plates; we were working wood before these things were available.
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#69
  Re: RE: Affording good sharpening stones by hbmcc ([quote='Timberwolf' ...)
(01-14-2020, 08:42 PM)hbmcc Wrote: Can I send you my tools to be sharpened? They keep growing like rabbits; and take longer to get sharp. I have 11 chisels coming from Japan that need to be tuned up, and that takes ages to do.

I have always considered myself obsessed with sharpening ... but ... NO WAY, Horsey!!

...........................
Can I send you my tools to be sharpened? They keep growing like rabbits; and take longer to get sharp. I have 11 chisels coming from Japan that need to be tuned up, and that takes ages to do.

The fact that tools take too long to sharpen is why I recommend power sharpening machines...If working wood is the ultimate goal, why spend so much time getting the edge you are wanting.?? It makes sense to me to speed that chore up by letting electrons do the work...For the price of three fancy waterstones you can buy a Worksharp and a few diamond plates and a leather strop for it....plus the diamond laps never need to be flattened, don't require water. and they are cheap to replace.

I have plans to make a copper or aluminum lap to fit the Worksharp and the Foley.....It will be charged with .5micron diamond paste.The diamond particles will embed into the lap and produce a sharp, mirror polish on the edge...We used these laps in faceting semi-precious stones in the lapidary hobby, and they work very well on hard steel....Fortunately, I have plenty of 1/8" X 12" flat aluminum and some 6" X .030" Beryllium copper in stock to experiment with...
I love the Corps for those intangible possessions that cannot be
issued: pride, honor, integrity, and being able to carry on the
traditions for generations of warriors past. [Cpl. Jeff Sornij, USMC;
in Navy Times, November 1994]


Jack Edgar, Sgt. USMC Korean War 51/52
Get off my lawn ! Upset





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#70
  Re: RE: Affording good sharpening stones by wmickley (I was taught to use ...)
(01-14-2020, 10:06 PM)wmickley Wrote: I was taught to use two stones by a colleague in 1967. I use this method sometimes. We don't need three stones because we think about what we are doing. We don't just mindlessly rub stones. 

We don't need flattening plates or diamond plates or granite plates; we were working wood before these things were available.
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We don't need flattening plates or diamond plates or granite plates; we were working wood before these things were available.

That's a fact !!!!!! In the beginning, woodworkers built this country and they sure as heck were not obsessed with flattening their tools..Most of the hones I have found at flea markets were silicon carbide or India and had a saddle worn in the faces..The furniture makers and finishers among them usually had Washita or Arkansas hones for the sharpest edges...The luckier ones may also have had Belgian coticules.... Big Grin
I love the Corps for those intangible possessions that cannot be
issued: pride, honor, integrity, and being able to carry on the
traditions for generations of warriors past. [Cpl. Jeff Sornij, USMC;
in Navy Times, November 1994]


Jack Edgar, Sgt. USMC Korean War 51/52
Get off my lawn ! Upset





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