Multi Tool suggestions
#24
  Re: Multi Tool suggestions by Jack01 (I need to buy a Mult...)
Murray - we'll just have to disagree on what amount of dust is acceptable and to whom.  I'm guessing your museum clients or owners rarely watch you work.   They probably have better things to do.  Your tolerance of dust may be more than mine too.  

You're correct that these things don't produce the dust of a normal saw, but dust the produce.  Ans the dust the festool vac shroud captures is more than your nothing solution.  Is all this minute collection rational and unrealistic ?   Probably.  But for you to presume what others need based on your experience is presumptive.

I've gone to the makita xds01 for cutting out boxes in drywall and a rotozip with a dust shroud for outlet boxes in cabinetry.   Both offer as near to 100% collection i think you'll get.   Even better than anything festool offers.  But this is what I've found collects the best and cut adequately.  Means you've got to spend more $ and carry two more tools around, so it's not for everyone.  But if I want as near to no mess as possible, that's the price.

As far as collaboration contradiction.   It's not a contradiction.   Your view that it is, is black and white.  German firms do it all the time.  Especially small ones like Festool calling upon larger ones like Fein.  American firms are less prone to doing so.   Starlock is a great example.  Fein and Bosch decided to collaborate on a new blade interface and festool was jsut along for the ride. But, do we see a standard interface with and American firms ?  Nope.   They could have joined in Starlock, or even invented their own.  So, one firm's ability to collaborate has absolutely no bearing on what a another firm does.

Rikon is way bigger than Laguna and already has bandsaws in the catalog.  Unlike Festool, that had no multitool to draw upon.  And believe me, if they did they wouldn't go shopping for help.  Laguna isn't a manuf. either.  Primarily a marketing co. , though like Rikon they are now contracting with Asian manuf. to build stuff for them.  Some exclusively.  So it doesn't really make sense for the Big guy to solicit the help of the small fry.  Makes more sense to buy him out.  Like Festool did with SawStop. 

I think Shane was telling JLC a corp. little white lie in that comment.  Assembled yes, but where do you suppose the parts all came from ?  Everything was directly interchangeable on Supercut and Vecturo except the plug-it  connector - which Festool dropped because it failed prematurely.  And you could have added a plug-it to Starlock without a lot of effort if you chose.   All the parts are not interchangeable on those bandsaws. Very similar. but that's not the same.   And now that the orig corded Vecturo/ Supercut is mothballed, how do you think accounting and mgmt. feels about the the money they spent on all those molds, dies, extruders, assembly jigs and line setup for a 5 year run ?  Especially when I can but the parts already made down the street with no capital outlay ?  A big. co. like Fein can adsorb a new production line.  They already had economies of scale at work since they invented the category.  A brand new production line for a new (licensed) product at relatively small co. like Festool doesn't make financial sense for a short production run with limited sales like vecturo had.

Anyway , back to you're assertion that vecturo is so-so and supercut is da bomb.  That is simply wrong.   They were the same machine with the same power and stroke.  Matters not who built or assembled it.   Value is a different discussion.
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#25
  Re: RE: Multi Tool suggestions by Cabinet Monkey (Murray - we'll just ...)
(08-09-2020, 10:34 AM)Cabinet Monkey Wrote: Murray - we'll just have to disagree on what amount of dust is acceptable and to whom.  I'm guessing your museum clients or owners rarely watch you work.   They probably have better things to do.  Your tolerance of dust may be more than mine too.  

You're correct that these things don't produce the dust of a normal saw, but dust the produce.  Ans the dust the festool vac shroud captures is more than your nothing solution.  Is all this minute collection rational and unrealistic ?   Probably.  But for you to presume what others need based on your experience is presumptive.

I've gone to the makita xds01 for cutting out boxes in drywall and a rotozip with a dust shroud for outlet boxes in cabinetry.   Both offer as near to 100% collection i think you'll get.   Even better than anything festool offers.  But this is what I've found collects the best and cut adequately.  Means you've got to spend more $ and carry two more tools around, so it's not for everyone.  But if I want as near to no mess as possible, that's the price.

As far as collaboration contradiction.   It's not a contradiction.   Your view that it is, is black and white.  German firms do it all the time.  Especially small ones like Festool calling upon larger ones like Fein.  American firms are less prone to doing so.   Starlock is a great example.  Fein and Bosch decided to collaborate on a new blade interface and festool was jsut along for the ride. But, do we see a standard interface with and American firms ?  Nope.   They could have joined in Starlock, or even invented their own.  So, one firm's ability to collaborate has absolutely no bearing on what a another firm does.

Rikon is way bigger than Laguna and already has bandsaws in the catalog.  Unlike Festool, that had no multitool to draw upon.  And believe me, if they did they wouldn't go shopping for help.  Laguna isn't a manuf. either.  Primarily a marketing co. , though like Rikon they are now contracting with Asian manuf. to build stuff for them.  Some exclusively.  So it doesn't really make sense for the Big guy to solicit the help of the small fry.  Makes more sense to buy him out.  Like Festool did with SawStop. 

I think Shane was telling JLC a corp. little white lie in that comment.  Assembled yes, but where do you suppose the parts all came from ?  Everything was directly interchangeable on Supercut and Vecturo except the plug-it  connector - which Festool dropped because it failed prematurely.  And you could have added a plug-it to Starlock without a lot of effort if you chose.   All the parts are not interchangeable on those bandsaws. Very similar. but that's not the same.   And now that the orig corded Vecturo/ Supercut is mothballed, how do you think accounting and mgmt. feels about the the money they spent on all those molds, dies, extruders, assembly jigs and line setup for a 5 year run ?  Especially when I can but the parts already made down the street with no capital outlay ?  A big. co. like Fein can adsorb a new production line.  They already had economies of scale at work since they invented the category.  A brand new production line for a new (licensed) product at relatively small co. like Festool doesn't make financial sense for a short production run with limited sales like vecturo had.

Anyway , back to you're assertion that vecturo is so-so and supercut is da bomb.  That is simply wrong.   They were the same machine with the same power and stroke.  Matters not who built or assembled it.   Value is a different discussion.

I respect many of your points
Can I buy you a virtual beer?

Big fan of the Rotozip. When I need great dc that's my goto as well. Especially with drywall. I mainly use a multitool for precise cutting in wood.
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#26
  Re: Multi Tool suggestions by Jack01 (I need to buy a Mult...)
I have a fein which is a great tool. I've never even bothered to use it's dust collection adaptor since dust isn't a problem.

But for small jobs I grab my Makita cordless. It's not nearly as nice, but cordless makes it so convienent.
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