Shower valve question
#11
  
I've been fighting with this basement shower for almost 2 weeks now.  After replacing the Moen shower cartridge (and it's still leaking), I've decided to just replace the whole shower valve.  This is just a shower enclosure, though, with no tub spout so I don't know why the piping keeps extending down.  Is it there just for support?  I'm standing in front of a bar sink to take this picture and there's no access below.

Unsoldering and then soldering in a new valve would be the cheapest, but I have minimal soldering experience.  Previously when I installed my own water heater and a shower valve, I had a lot of clearance.  Using a torch (even with some kind of fire block around) on the back of my shower makes me nervous.  I was going to replace everything with Sharkbites, but I also wanted to just cap off the downward pipe since I think connecting it with a Sharkbite and also trying to connect all those other pipes will be a challenge--working from two directions instead of just one.  I can screw in some 1x to the studs and then strap the new pipes to it for support.  The 2 shutoffs above will also be replaced.

The TLDR version.  Is it necessary for me to reconnect that lower pipe to the new shower valve or can I just cap it off?

Thanks,
Paul

   
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#12
  Re: Shower valve question by atgcpaul (I've been fighting w...)
If you are uncomfortable with soldering in there (understandably), hire it out. It's a pretty simple and quick job for a plumber.

The plumber probably wouldn't "de-solder" it, He'd probably cut it out.
Neil Summers Home Inspections


When it comes to 'lectricity, I'm a pretty good wood turner.

... Grey Mountain 3/2/21

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#13
  Re: Shower valve question by atgcpaul (I've been fighting w...)
The bottom pipe is for a tub spout, whether it's being used or not. Maybe there was a tub there at one time?

A plumber would cut the valve out so heat wouldn't be needed near the fiberglass shower. My guess is that his cuts would be above the valve near the center of the access hole to make installation easier. He'd just cut the top 3 pipes and unscrew the valve from the escutcheon plate and lift it all out. There is a possibility that there is an elbow in the end of the bottom pipe and it won't pull through that hole.. If so, he'd probably just cut that pipe and try to work it out through the hole or just let it drop down and forget about it. He'd do most of his soldering for the new valve outside the shower cavity and use 1/2" repair couplings (without stops in them) and solder the new. He'd basically solder it up the same way it is with the elbows and risers cut the same lengths as the ones he cut out. Then just solder in the 3 couplings. If you do this yourself, you'll need to get the existing pipes as clean as you can. Get all that corrosion off or the you'll have difficulty getting a good solder joint.
Neil Summers Home Inspections


When it comes to 'lectricity, I'm a pretty good wood turner.

... Grey Mountain 3/2/21

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#14
  Re: Shower valve question by atgcpaul (I've been fighting w...)
As Snipe Hunter has stated, it would or could be difficult to remove the drop pipe, I would get one of these 
Imp Cutter
Then get a shower valve that has female iron pipe threads and is shower valve only, meaning it has 3 ports and not 4 screw shark bite adapters in all with teflon tape or pipe dope or both, it appears you would have enough room to use shark bite connectors for all other connections.

Take your measurements carefully and connect shower riser first, you should then have a little play in the hot and cold to pry back and into the sharkbite fitting. Also using a small metal file, remove as much of the burr on the copper as possible, not doing this is why there are failures, the burr will cut into the o ring. Also smear a little petroleum jelly on your copper pipes before inserting.

Hope you can make some sense of this and good luck..
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#15
  Re: Shower valve question by atgcpaul (I've been fighting w...)
The tub spout is being used as a brace since they did not install the valve properly. The valve should have a 2x4 on flat behind it and the valve screwed to it.  If you want to replace it all with shark bites you will have to mount the valve to a 2x4 when you install it. 

      As for the Moen... Their slogan isn't "Buy it for looks, Fix it for life" for nothing. I have never had luck with Moen. I stick with Delta or  the longest lasting I have had were Price Pfister as their stuff is all solid brass.
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#16
  Re: RE: Shower valve question by Robert Adams (The tub spout is bei...)
(08-05-2020, 08:23 PM)Robert Adams Wrote: The tub spout is being used as a brace since they did not install the valve properly. The valve should have a 2x4 on flat behind it and the valve screwed to it.  If you want to replace it all with shark bites you will have to mount the valve to a 2x4 when you install it. 

     

Heed this advice.
Neil Summers Home Inspections


When it comes to 'lectricity, I'm a pretty good wood turner.

... Grey Mountain 3/2/21

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#17
  Re: Shower valve question by atgcpaul (I've been fighting w...)
I used my Dad's imp cutter a week ago to move the utility sink...then I returned it because I thought I was done with this shower.  He's coming next week and he'll bring it back.

I *was* going to go with Moen because the front trim kit I bought fits Moen.  That's the only reason.  I think I'll look for a Delta which is what I used before.

What I'm thinking is to buy the Delta kit with either male or female IPS connections.  Then I'll cap off that bottom stub both on the Delta and the down pipe (if it isn't already loose).  I'm not seeing many/any valves that have just 3 ports, though.

For the hot and cold supplies I will transition to CPVC, CPVC elbows, and then up to Sharkbite ball valve shutoffs .  The shower supply pipe will also transition to CPVC and then connect to the existing copper with a Sharkbite union.

That'll reduce the cost of the Sharkbites (dang, those things are spendy) and with the CPVC I won't have to buy another torch (I can't get to mine in storage), just some primer and cement.

Along the way I'll figure out how to brace the valve.  There isn't much space so I'll have to use 1x material.  Hopefully I can secure that valve from the shower stall side.  The existing hole is pretty small and I'd rather not cut into the shower (have to buy another tool which I know is in storage).  It'll be more obvious once I have the parts in hand.


Thanks,
Paul


Edit:  Found and ordered the 3 port valve:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0040Y...UTF8&psc=1
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#18
  Re: Shower valve question by atgcpaul (I've been fighting w...)
My Dad dropped off the imp cutter today when he picked up the mower.  I guess I didn't have to worry if that bottom stub was secured or not.  At least I can return that Sharkbite stop, too.

   


The new 3 port valve is ready to go. I do not like this new orange cement.  I just need to find some 1x material to secure the new valve and pipes to.

   
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#19
  Re: Shower valve question by atgcpaul (I've been fighting w...)
I’m replacing the same thing, but using all copper. I’m old school that way I guess.
I need to post a picture of what I took out, it was pretty bad. I wiggled one of the pipes coming out of the valve and it popped right out of the fitting. Less than a quarter inch of the pipe was soldered in....
VH07V  
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#20
  Re: Shower valve question by atgcpaul (I've been fighting w...)
If it makes you feel any better: I replaced everything in the last house with Moen and after 12 years, there were no problems. And when remodeling this house, everything was also replaced with Moen but it's only been 2 years now and no problems.
Neil Summers Home Inspections


When it comes to 'lectricity, I'm a pretty good wood turner.

... Grey Mountain 3/2/21

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