Pantorouter vs Domino.
#21
  Re: RE: Pantorouter vs Domino. by Handplanesandmore (If resale value is a...)
(08-27-2020, 07:26 PM)Handplanesandmore Wrote: If resale value is a consideration: get the domino joiner 500. It is a hot cake. Among the products mentioned, it is also the most versatile one (if you are willing to spend time learning all the tricks).

Is it overpriced? Not in the right hands.

Simon

Sure can't argue with that.  When they do show up used, they go very quickly and at only a slight discount over new.
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#22
  Re: Pantorouter vs Domino. by jstraw (The price of a Panto...)
I have both,

Made a home built pantarouter years ago, it is definitely a very interesting and versatile tool.

I’ve also had a Leigh fmt also a very useful tool.

For the utility and being easy to use and setup, the domino wins in my book.

Duke
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#23
  Re: Pantorouter vs Domino. by jstraw (The price of a Panto...)
I have both domino models and a JDS multi router.  The 500 gets used the most, followed by the 700 and the multi router dead last.
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#24
  Re: Pantorouter vs Domino. by jstraw (The price of a Panto...)
A few months ago all the positive reviews and opinions about the Domino had me convinced that would be my next major tool purchase. ( Major for me starts around $800). So, I started researching the Domino. The more I looked the more I questioned my assumptions. There are two different models, when combined, cover the entire range of possible uses. People that own one or the other have ways to work around that issue, but many also own both. Plus to really take advantage of the convinces the Domino offers, I should eventually dump my shop vacuum and upgrade to a Festool version.

That’s when I stumbled onto the Pantorouter. The kit is pretty complete, with the upgrade to large tenons is a minor investment. Being stationary, I can plumb it into my dust collection system.

The message I get so far from owner is the convenience of the portable Domino outweigh the features the stationary options Offer.

Thanks for all the feedback.
John
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#25
  Re: Pantorouter vs Domino. by jstraw (The price of a Panto...)
I'm not pimping for Festool, but if you get the larger Domino, you can buy some gadgets from Seneca that make it do everything the smaller one can...plus you still have the larger capability. I have both Dominos, and frankly the 700 is a handful....but it can be done. As for the vac, you don't need their vac. I run mine on a Fein vac and it works just fine....I suspect that any shop vac will work once you cobble out the connection stuff. That said, I still think the Pantorouter looks pretty cool.
I started with absolutely nothing. Now, thanks to years of hard work, careful planning, and perseverance, I find I still have most of it left.
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#26
  Re: Pantorouter vs Domino. by jstraw (The price of a Panto...)
If possible, try the two models at a store. It's not just the money, but how comfortable you feel with using the big one on a long term basis for almost EVERY job (mostly small to large builds; the xl is designed for large and super large projects).

If you plan to build entry doors for yourself and neighbors or have half a dozen tables for 10 or more to build, the xl is the obvious choice. What works for some may be a terrible idea for you.

Make some cuts at the store with both models (horizontally and vertically) on large and small pieces (bring some scraps), and feel how well you can control the machines. Imagine doing that 50 to 100 more times which is typical of using a domino to build things.

False economy is best avoided with good research. Unless the store associate who helps you is on commission, he or she should find out what you would do mostly with the machine, and then offer the best advice based on his or her knowledge and experience.

Fredhargis is right, any shop vac/hose (no need to be antistatic) will do for the domino.

Simon
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#27
  Re: Pantorouter vs Domino. by jstraw (The price of a Panto...)
I drank the green Koolaid some years back, but I resisted a Domino until January of this year. I went back and forth between the 500 and the XL. I was leaning towards the XL and the Seneca conversion, but I deferred to the wisdom of the crowd. I found the 500 to be useful, but I found myself frequently thinking about using it on bigger projects, and then deciding against it. So I bought the XL and the Seneca adapter, and figured I'd sell the 500. I never sold the 500.

This year, I have used the XL three or four times more often than the 500, but that is mostly related to the fact that I have been building a lot of outdoor furniture, picnic tables, and planter boxes for scouting projects. I have put the Seneca adapter on when I needed a particularly deep mortise in smaller stock, such as joining two vertical elements through a horizontal element with a single long tenon. I also think the XL has a much smoother action than the 500, and I straight up love it for the speed and strength it lets me build into my outdoor projects. I may never Kreg screw another 2x4 again. But most of the time when I am working with 3/4" stock, the lighter weight and easier positioning of the 500 wins out. It has enough utility and convenience over the XL for it's dedicated purposes that I've just kept it. So while I like my XL better and use it more often, I'd stick with the wisdom of the crowd and consider the one that most reflects the material thickness you will be using most often.
Math is tough. Let's go shopping!
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#28
  Re: Pantorouter vs Domino. by jstraw (The price of a Panto...)
John Tenyk's Horizontal Router Mortiser is the cat's meow. It's a bargain that will do 98% of what a JDS Pantarouter will do at half the price of a Domino. He'll deliver to your door well packaged and including a good Bessey clamp, a Whiteside 1/4" carbide spiral bit and a safety paddle switch ready for your router. 

This isn't a kit. It's a completely built machine with a base, a sliding table and a workable hold down system, all in sealed Baltic birch. You can unbox it and cut mortises in the time it takes you to hang a router on it. Dust collection is quite reasonable - about 80% using your vacuum and a $40 silicone adaptor. 

I leave mine setup consuming around 30" square by 16" high (I'm guessing; ping me if it's critical). Tear-down is simple: lift off the table; remove the router from it's fixed base which stays attached to the mortiser ideally; and, lastly move the base to wherever you want to store it. But you'll still need to store that same package. I have a funky stand below my right side table saw extension. The mortiser normally lives on top, but it's pretty quick to move it under the table if necessary 

Placing it on the saw table puts it a a good working height. You should ideally be able to work on two contiguous sides plus have reachable access to the back. But that's required no matter what your gizmo of choice.

I've owned several bargain machine mortising setups over the years, and they were all raggedy assed. I have a half dozen routers and more exotic bases than I'd like to admit to, but I still prefer to cut mortises by hand if it's appropriate, and I like to be able to mix them with John's machine cut variant as called for.

My only affiliation with John is on Woodnet. He hides his light, definitely not a marketing guy. He provided invaluable insight into Grizzly's 636 bandsaw. That's also the cat's meow - easily the best medium sized resaw machine in the current market. I had to hunt him down to buy one of his machines. But he's the real deal, and he builds a great machine.

dp
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#29
  Re: RE: Pantorouter vs Domino. by JohnnyEgo (I drank the green Ko...)
(08-28-2020, 07:04 PM)JohnnyEgo Wrote: I drank the green Koolaid some years back, but I resisted a Domino until January of this year.  I went back and forth between the 500 and the XL.  I was leaning towards the XL and the Seneca conversion, but I deferred to the wisdom of the crowd.  I found the 500 to be useful, but I found myself frequently thinking about using it on bigger projects, and then deciding against it.  So I bought the XL and the Seneca adapter, and figured I'd sell the 500.  I never sold the 500.  

This year, I have used the XL three or four times more often than the 500, but that is mostly related to the fact that I have been building a lot of outdoor furniture, picnic tables, and planter boxes for scouting projects.  I have put the Seneca adapter on when I needed a particularly deep mortise in smaller stock, such as joining two vertical elements through a horizontal element with a single long tenon.  I also think the XL has a much smoother action than the 500, and I straight up love it for the speed and strength it lets me build into my outdoor projects.  I may never Kreg screw another 2x4 again.  But most of the time when I am working with 3/4" stock, the lighter weight and easier positioning of the 500 wins out.  It has enough utility and convenience over the XL for it's dedicated purposes that I've just kept it.  So while I like my XL better and use it more often, I'd stick with the wisdom of the crowd and consider the one that most reflects the material thickness you will be using most often.
This is by far one of the most objective comments from an xl owner I've come across. Often, xl users will tell you that since an xl can do everything, it's the only option one should go for (without mentioning its cons such as when using the adaptor to cut thin boards, or when you have to cut 100 mortises (that's not a lot), you need a popeye arm or two).

The key difference between 500 & 700 lies not in their ability in handling materials of different thicknesses, but in how deep the mortises need to be. The 500 can deal with 1/2" to 5" thick stock or thicker by using stacked dominoes (see manual). There's no limit in how thick a piece the 500 can handle. It's the depth that the xl out does the 500. Just remember before the xl was born, people built tables and chairs with the 500 (not to mention cabinets of any size).

For me, the decision was easy - over 90% of my projects are what a 500 can do with ease (and without muscle or shoulder strains). The other 10%? Use a method that people used before any domino machine was invented.

Google - favourite project with the Domino DF500 - and see for yourself some of the furniture pieces (bed, table, etc) people made with the smaller machine. If you are planning to build mostly projects bigger than those (entry doors, gates?), you should get an xl.

Simon
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#30
  Re: RE: Pantorouter vs Domino. by Maple Leaf (John Tenyk's Horizon...)
Thanks very much for the kind words, Maple Leaf.  

Maybe I should paint my machine green.     

John
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