Posts: 2,689
Threads: 0
Joined: Dec 2005
Mike Wenzloff and the Remarkable No. 77 Backsaw: this is the title of an article written by Chris Schwarz back in 2011 when he was still with Popular Woodworking Magazine. Here is a link to the article:
Wenzloff No. 77 PWW Article
Some months ago, while perusing the classifieds for new and interesting WW tools, I came across this saw, and was lucky enough to win the auction. I reached somewhat on the price, but I did so because I was so curious to see what it was like to use a backsaw with no set. After reading Chris's article, I was also perplexed at how a crosscut-filed saw could make stellar rip cuts. Although there is zero set, the saw plate itself is tapered from the toothline to the spine, which helps keep the saw from binding. It has a progressive tooth arrangement, allowing it to start easily and then cut aggressively once fully engaged in the cut. Here's a picture of the saw:
I have just begun to experiment with this saw, but I have discovered that it does indeed cut the cleanest tenon cheeks I've ever seen. Here is a pic of a quick cut I did for this post. Note this discontinuities are user error and have nothing to do with the saw:
Might not be clear in photo, but to the touch, the cut is amazingly clean.
So, zero-set saws: lets discuss.
Posts: 832
Threads: 0
Joined: Aug 2014
Don Williams prefers a no-set dovetail saw; here is one of his postings about that:
http://donsbarn.com/dovetail-saw-making-workshop-day-2/
I like my dovetail saws to be around 0.018" to 0.020" thick plates, with "set" teeth, and I have put new plates on some saws just to do that. However once I had a 0.025" thick saw plate, and I messed around for some time on the beltsander and with scrapers, to get the overall plate to taper some. It was OK... I ended up selling that saw; not sure what the next guy thought about it!
Chris
Chris
Posts: 281
Threads: 0
Joined: Nov 2019
10-12-2020, 02:03 PM
(This post was last modified: 10-12-2020, 02:21 PM by grwold.
Edit Reason: adding info on the smooth cut
)
I was lucky enough to pick up a Disston 77 a short time back. I didn't know what it was at the time, but was able to clean it up enough to open up the etch.
Maybe this is a late model, as it doesn't mention botchers!
I find it does make seriously smooth cuts, but I haven't the experience to discuss it much. Maybe @enjuneer will weigh in--I had him sharpen it for me after I'd cleaned it up.
Posts: 1,043
Threads: 0
Joined: Aug 2012
Location: In da U.P. of Michigan
(10-12-2020, 02:03 PM)grwold Wrote: I was lucky enough to pick up a Disston 77 a short time back. I didn't know what it was at the time, but was able to clean it up enough to open up the etch.
Maybe this is a late model, as it doesn't mention botchers!
I find it does make seriously smooth cuts, but I haven't the experience to discuss it much. Maybe @enjuneer will weigh in--I had him sharpen it for me after I'd cleaned it up.
That was my thought too - that it was a later model after the marketing guys decided that it would be better for business if they stopped insulting potential customers.
I actually had two 77s in my shop at one time. Besides yours, I discovered that a dirty old saw that I bought in a lot was actually a 77. I was going to keep it, but a fellow came along who wanted it more than I did.
I agree that these are very smooth cutting saws. With a significant taper to the plate to minimize binding, the teeth need no set. The special high fleam angle tooth profile also resulted in a very sharp cutting edge on the tooth edge. The two featured combined to easily sever wood fibers and make for a smooth cut. I was impressed enough with its performance that I may make a few of these someday.
Posts: 3,750
Threads: 0
Joined: Dec 2005
So is the filing job like the Acme 120 (the later style of filing, not the one that required the special file)?
Posts: 2,766
Threads: 0
Joined: Oct 2012
Location: W. of Rainier, E. of Orcas
I want one!
But, I suppose learning the taper, and filed characteristics would help me just as much. Do we have spec's. for the 77?
Heirlooms are self-important fiction so build what you like. Someone may find it useful.
Posts: 1,043
Threads: 0
Joined: Aug 2012
Location: In da U.P. of Michigan
(10-12-2020, 04:29 PM)msweig Wrote: So is the filing job like the Acme 120 (the later style of filing, not the one that required the special file)?
While a 77 is sharpened with a tapered file, the geometry is different from the Acme. The tooth rake angle is about 22 degrees, with a fleam angle of an extreme 45 degrees. There is no slope. It is not particularly difficult to file, although my muscle memory is not accustomed to the tight fleam angle. It takes a little while to get into the rhythm.
Posts: 274
Threads: 1
Joined: Aug 2004
(10-12-2020, 07:12 PM)enjuneer Wrote: While a 77 is sharpened with a tapered file, the geometry is different from the Acme. The tooth rake angle is about 22 degrees, with a fleam angle of an extreme 45 degrees. There is no slope. It is not particularly difficult to file, although my muscle memory is not accustomed to the tight fleam angle. It takes a little while to get into the rhythm.
Does anyone know if there is a similar saw produced today? Thanks. -Howard
DDoe
Posts: 2,689
Threads: 0
Joined: Dec 2005
I can't answer that question, but I have another question; the saw that I have is filed cross-cut. I wonder if Wenzloff made a rip version, and how that performs compared to the CC saw that I have?
(10-13-2020, 09:57 AM)Howard Pollack Wrote: Does anyone know if there is a similar saw produced today? Thanks. -Howard
DDoe
Posts: 12,248
Threads: 0
Joined: Mar 2006
Has anyone heard from Mike anytime recently? I have three saws he built for me: two half backs (rip & CC) and his interpretation of a Disston #16. I recall discussions in that time frame (a decade ago) about the 77, but I had little interest in it.
|
