Kitchen knives...which ones to buy or build?
#21
The knife I like the most (noted above) is a Zwilling (JA Henckels) Professional, and made in Germany. You'll s**t your pants at the price of a set. However, I am duly impressed with the hardness and durability of the blade. I think mine is a previous classic design--with the whimpy handle.

A couple of the worst design features of the recent craze in knives are the knuckle clearance and blade thickness most are subjected to. I have to work on the very edge of a cutting board and counter edge. Since the steel is full forged, Zwilling seems to think the blade will be driven through a cow thigh bone. It's a slow process to flatten the blade to a useful profile. You will be disappointed with the thinner sheet steel blades.
Heirlooms are self-important fiction so build what you like. Someone may find it useful.
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#22
I appreciate all the feedback. Looks like I will go with the swiss army ones and the base kit from woodcraft for a couple. 
As far as sharpening goes I use the HF 1 inch  strip sander if there are any chips etc...then I do a few strokes with an accusharp then about 20-30 strokes with a strop. I know this isn't "pure" but I can shave with the resulting edge.  I use this because I absolutely cannot freehand a knife on my stones. I have tried but fail each time.
"Life is too short for bad tools.".-- Pedder 7/22/11
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#23
(11-02-2020, 10:21 PM)Timberwolf Wrote: ..............................
You can spend lots of money on tools for sharpening but the "El-Cheapo" 1"X30" belt sander/grinder from Harbor Freight can be a tool sharpener's best friend!!!!!!!
Big Grin
I don't know if you remember, Jack, but you are the one who turned me on to power stropping. I like it so much that I bought an HF unit for my son. I sit it on its back so that the belt run horizontally and away from me. Going to build a rest for my hand and the larger blades - some day. I like it because I can put it away since it only weighs a few pounds. The larger 1 x 42" Delta unit pretty much has to stay put. Now I use the Delta with fine Trizact belts and the HF unit with the leather strop belt..
Thanks,  Curt
-----------------
"Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards."
      -- Soren Kierkegaard
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#24
Carbon steel

It’s a bit more care as you need to be actively cleaning and drying but from a sharpeness perspective / they are great.

Check out the kramer series carbon knives.
"Humble pie was delicious as an abstract motivational tool. But when you have to actually take a bite, it tastes terrible."
Dan Shaughnessy, boston globe on the Patriots loss in Superbowl XLII
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#25
(11-03-2020, 08:05 PM)cputnam Wrote: I don't know if you remember, Jack, but you are the one who turned me on to power stropping.  I like it so much that I bought an HF unit for my son.  I sit it on its back so that the belt run horizontally and away from me.  Going to build a rest for my hand and the larger blades - some day.  I like it because I can put it away since it only weighs a few pounds.  The larger 1 x 42" Delta unit pretty much has to stay put.  Now I use the Delta with fine Trizact belts  and the HF unit with the leather strop belt..

.....................
I do remember, Curt....I have suggested laying the grinder on it's back so the belt turns away from you...The grinder's popularity is pretty evident, particularly among knife makers, if the number of Youtube videos are any indication..I think of the belt as an "endless" sharpening stone or leather strop..It is easier to learn to use correctly than stropping/sharpening on a bench grinder..the bench grinder requires a steady hand and more precision. There's no reason to limit their use to "just" kitchen knives..Once good technique is mastered, you can sharpen just about any WW tool except a hand saw on one...

Buy the way, I was interested in the Beal belt grinder { not that I needed another belt grinder
Crazy } so I bought one when LV had them on sale not long ago...If you have an old motor you can install on it, it is a pretty good machine. It takes a 42" belt, which will last a bit longer than the 30". To make it run a little smoother, I intend to true up the drive wheel on my old South Bend metal lathe...The wheel is die cast and not very accurately machined..

One can never have TOO many sharpeners......
Rolleyes
Winkgrin
Often Tested.    Always Faithful.      Brothers Forever

Jack Edgar, Sgt. U.S. Marines, Korea, America's Forgotten War
Get off my lawn !
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#26
(11-04-2020, 01:20 PM)Timberwolf Wrote: Buy the way, I was interested in the Beal belt grinder { not that I needed another belt grinder
Crazy  } so I bought one when LV had them on sale not long ago...If you have an old motor you can install on it, it is a pretty good machine. It takes a 42" belt, which will last a bit longer than the 30". To make it run a little smoother, I intend to true up the drive wheel on my old South Bend metal lathe...The wheel is die cast and not very accurately machined..

One can never have TOO many sharpeners......
Rolleyes  
Winkgrin

I think you're referring to the Viel belt sander/grinder.

Lee Valley
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#27
(11-05-2020, 01:01 PM)gov.cheese Wrote: I think you're referring to the Viel belt sander/grinder.

Lee Valley

......................
Viel belt sander/grinder.

Very senior moment
Crazy
Big Grin
Often Tested.    Always Faithful.      Brothers Forever

Jack Edgar, Sgt. U.S. Marines, Korea, America's Forgotten War
Get off my lawn !
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#28
I'm a little late to the party, but here are my thoughts. Kitchen knives are certainly a slippery slope if you want to start looking at really nice knives (far superior to Henkels, Wusthof, Shun, etc.), often of the Japanese variety. If you want to fully jump into some of the craziness of this world, there are multiple forums for enthusiasts where they'll gladly help you spend money. I'm a member of and enjoy kitchenknifeforums.com, but there are others.

To make some big generalizations, there are a few main differences between most Japanese and Western knives. 1) Japanese knives usually don't have a bolster that extends to the edge, making sharpening easier. 2) Japanese knives usually have a straighter edge, while Western knives usually have more of a belly (easier for rock-chopping). 3) Japanese knives usually have steel that is harder. That means you can sharpen to a finer angle and get really good cutting performance, but it's also usually easier to chip. Steel type matters a lot, of course. 4) Japanese knifes usually tend to be a bit lighter and more nimble. There are plenty more differences, but those are a few that come to mind.

For a good Japanese knife, I'd highly recommend using a good whetstone (practice makes perfect). Electric sharpeners can wreak havoc on the finer, harder edge of a good Japanese blade, although there are some out there that can work. Along similar lines, don't use a honing steel on the edge of a high-hardness Japanese knife. The lower hardness of a Western knife means that the edge rolls over with use and can be straightened multiple times with a honing steel. On a Japanese knife with high hardness, the edge doesn't really roll over in use, and the pressure of the steel on a small contact point along the edge can cause micro chips. A ceramic honing rod can work, but just using a stone is better.

The profile, thickness behind the edge, and other aspects (an easy rabbit hole to go down, with tons of opinions) can really make a big difference in cutting performance. Many often say this is more important than the steel choice. So, if you want a good knife, go with a respected manufacturer (many you will have never heard of, but the knife forums can enlighten you). I'm not really referencing Henkels/Wusthof/Shun here, although they all make some decent knifes if that's the style you're looking for.

A lot will also come down to how you plan to take care of the knife. If you'll put it in the dishwasher or store it loose in a drawer, get a Western knife with a softer steel that can take the abuse. If you'll be a bit more careful with it, options like carbon steel (get really sharp and easy to sharpen, but also rust) and wood handles become options.

For Japanese knives, two that I think are excellent and don't break the bank are the Tojiro DP series (such as the F-808), which was mentioned earlier, and the Gesshin Stainless gyuto (link #1 or link #2, depending on the handle you're interested in). It's easy to get into the $300+ range for some of the nicer Japanese knives. Others here have mentioned the Victorinox chef's knife. I think that's a decent knife, especially in bang-for-the-buck, but I also think for a little more (depending on where you buy it, as prices vary quite a bit), stepping up to the Tojiro DP is worthwhile.

Cutting boards are of course worth considering, with end grain wood (maple, cherry, walnut, etc.) usually considered the best. Bamboo has a lot of silica content, which can dull knives, but I'd say is still better than some other options out there. Please don't use glass or a granite counter. Please.

Those are just my thoughts. These choices can be a very personal thing and the same knife doesn't work for everyone. You can pay all the way from barely functional to work-of-art prices, although at some point you get diminishing returns on performance for the price (often at a higher price point that many consider paying for a single knife) and shift to paying for beautiful works of art that you enjoy holding and using. There's a middle ground in there somewhere too.

Good luck!
Tyler
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#29
In the past I've purchased "Japanese VG10 knife blade blanks" and made handles for them.  The steel is fantastic for holding edges and the blades are beautiful.  Try googling and see what is available, there is usually a lot of choices.  From what I read avoid the Chinese versions of VG10, again according to what I've read it is not actually VG10.   -Howard
iIn
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#30
Unless a knife edge is significantly damaged, or you are using a very fine grit belt, I don't think using a belt sander on a regular basis for kitchen knives is advisable. Belt sanders can consume a knife's edge very rapidly. No problem if you're using belts with grits like 1200 or above. Especially with some of the more typical knife steels out there.
Still Learning,

Allan Hill
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