in need of planing advice

[dow]

Several years ago, I bought Mike Siemsen's video, "The Naked Woodworker" from Lost Art Press with the intention of building his Nicholson style bench. Then life happened, and a lot of things got put on hold. Life now seems to have smoothed out a little, in spite of covid, the election, and everything else, so I'm getting ready to actually start the thing. However, I've run into a snag, and I'm hoping that someone can offer a solution.

The bench is built out of big box 2-by lumber, and I'll be needing to join and flatten a lot of it. The problem is that my Stanley 7C is out of commission until I can locate a replacement frog for it.

Other than the 7C, I have a #4, a #5, and a couple of block planes. Is there any way that I can do the joining with the #5, or would I just be buying myself a load of frustration trying? If not, then what would you recommend?

Thoughts?

[bandit571]

Might want to watch Paul Sellers build his benches.....uses just  a Stanley #4....mostly....

[Aram]

Several years ago, I bought Mike Siemsen's video, "The Naked Woodworker" from Lost Art Press with the intention of building his Nicholson style bench.  Then life happened, and a lot of things got put on hold.  Life now seems to have smoothed out a little, in spite of covid, the election, and everything else, so I'm getting ready to actually start the thing. However, I've run into a snag, and I'm hoping that someone can offer a solution.  

The bench is built out of big box 2-by lumber, and I'll be needing to join and flatten a lot of it. The problem is that my Stanley 7C is out of commission until I can locate a replacement frog for it.

Other than the 7C, I have a #4, a #5, and a couple of block planes.  Is there any way that I can do the joining with the #5, or would I just be buying myself a load of frustration trying?  If not, then what would you recommend?

Thoughts?

Depending on your skill level and desire, for fifty bucks (Hock blade) and the cost of a few board feet of hardwood, you could build a nice, very long Krenov-style jointer.

[iclark]

I would suggest posting a WTB down in SnS for the frog that you need. If you are not good at typing (age dating) planes, then including a decent pic of the part of the plane where the frog seats would help.

Aram's suggestion can be a good one if you are so inclined, but it can also be a slippery slope that distracts you into tool making instead of bench building. If you go that route, remember that better is the enemy of good. A "good" plane lets you joint and flatten the wood.

Does that book or your other learning cover:

- how you are going to support and hold the boards while you flatten, joint, and glue them?

- making sure that the grain of all of the boards are oriented the same way so that you can plane them once they are glued up?

- what to use for straight-edges when trying to find high and low spots?


Edited to add: I see that you already posted the WTB in SnS before I wrote this. Admiral's info should help. I am surprised that no one has offered one yet. It does seem like some of the folks with the biggest plane bone yards aren't very active here lately. It might be worth sending Josh Clark an email to see if he has either a frog or a parts plane that he has not listed on Hyperkitten Tools yet.

[stav]

I'm no expert, but a lot of the "experts" I see on YouTube say you can do this with a #5.

[wmickley]

You can certainly do this work with a #5 plane. It is slightly easier with a #7 plane. It is easier for a skilled worker to do this work with a #5 than for an unskilled worker to do with a #7.

If your #5 plane has an iron with camber that is intended for rough work, you can substitute the iron from your #4 plane when making joints. Both are 2" wide.

[adamcherubini]

Several years ago, I bought Mike Siemsen's video, "The Naked Woodworker" from Lost Art Press with the intention of building his Nicholson style bench.  Then life happened, and a lot of things got put on hold.  Life now seems to have smoothed out a little, in spite of covid, the election, and everything else, so I'm getting ready to actually start the thing. However, I've run into a snag, and I'm hoping that someone can offer a solution.  

The bench is built out of big box 2-by lumber, and I'll be needing to join and flatten a lot of it. The problem is that my Stanley 7C is out of commission until I can locate a replacement frog for it.

Other than the 7C, I have a #4, a #5, and a couple of block planes.  Is there any way that I can do the joining with the #5, or would I just be buying myself a load of frustration trying?  If not, then what would you recommend?

Thoughts?

Flattening bench tops is over rated in my book. Tops don't stay flat anyway. You can do good work on a bench that is not perfectly flat. I agree the flatness provided by a #5 will be good enough. You can check with a straight edge no problem.

I don't really understand the plan for the long glued up joint. OR are you using a power jointer for that?

I glued up my Doug fir top with titebond over 10 years ago. Its been 1/2 way across the country, in the rain, unconditioned spaces and still not a crack. I used a 16 footer (Schwarz recommendation) and cut it in half in the HD parking lot. I planed off the radiused edges and match planed and sprung them with a 3" wide 30"+ wooden jointer plane. Why every woodworker doesn't own that plane escapes me. I fail to see how guys can operate hand tool shops without it.

Recommend replacing your #7's frog, and purchasing a #8 or woody jointer. A #8 can be made to work but it simply isn't as good as a longer, wider plane. I think I'd pick a 30" transitional before a #8.

Love my Nicholson bench and love Mike Siemsen. He's awesome.

Adam

[dow]

Flattening bench tops is over rated in my book. Tops don't stay flat anyway. You can do good work on a bench that is not perfectly flat.  I agree the flatness provided by a #5 will be good enough.  You can check with a straight edge no problem.  

I don't really understand the plan for the long glued up joint. OR are you using a power jointer for that?

I glued up my Doug fir top with titebond over 10 years ago.  Its been 1/2 way across the country, in the rain, unconditioned spaces and still not a crack. I used a 16 footer (Schwarz recommendation) and cut it in half in the HD parking lot. I planed off the radiused edges and match planed and sprung them with a 3" wide 30"+ wooden jointer plane. Why every woodworker doesn't own that plane escapes me.  I fail to see how guys can operate hand tool shops without it.

Recommend replacing your #7's frog, and purchasing a #8 or woody jointer. A #8 can be made to work but it simply isn't as good as a longer, wider plane. I think I'd pick a 30" transitional before a #8.

Love my Nicholson bench and love Mike Siemsen. He's awesome.

Adam

In his video, Mike planes the top edges of the skirts and cross supports to make sure that they're all the same, and I'm concerned that the #5 isn't long enough to do a suitable job of flattening that top edge, especially along the full length of the bench.  If I could get all those the same, then I could pull the top down against that framework and keep things pretty stable.  I'll agree with you that it's probably unreasonable to expect the top of a SYP bench to stay dead level, but it'd be nice to have it that way at least to start with. 

Don't have a power jointer.  Never had the room for one.  Mike's plan has a gap along the center of the table with a filler that you can either pop up to plane against or remove and use the slot provided for F clamps, so the two sides of the top aren't glued together.  They are glued down to the skirts and bearers though.

To be honest, I've never even seen but a couple of wooden planes, and then nothing like the long ones you're talking about.  There's one for sale in a junk store about 40 miles away, but it's in the place where it really needs to be, a junk store... split and cracked, and REALLY beat up.  I've also never seen a #8, other than in pictures and on Mike's video.  Central Texas isn't exactly a hand tool mecca.

[adamcherubini]

In his video, Mike planes the top edges of the skirts and cross supports to make sure that they're all the same, and I'm concerned that the #5 isn't long enough to do a suitable job of flattening that top edge, especially along the full length of the bench.  If I could get all those the same, then I could pull the top down against that framework and keep things pretty stable.  I'll agree with you that it's probably unreasonable to expect the top of a SYP bench to stay dead level, but it'd be nice to have it that way at least to start with. 

Don't have a power jointer.  Never had the room for one.  Mike's plan has a gap along the center of the table with a filler that you can either pop up to plane against or remove and use the slot provided for F clamps, so the two sides of the top aren't glued together.  They are glued down to the skirts and bearers though.

To be honest, I've never even seen but a couple of wooden planes, and then nothing like the long ones you're talking about.  There's one for sale in a junk store about 40 miles away, but it's in the place where it really needs to be, a junk store... split and cracked, and REALLY beat up.  I've also never seen a #8, other than in pictures and on Mike's video.  Central Texas isn't exactly a hand tool mecca.

eBay? Lots of cheap transitionals thanks to Pat Leach’s slander. I recall going to a flea market in Canton, when I was working in Dallas. It was east on I 20. Lot of rusty Stanleys, but that was years ago. I think I found a chisel I liked in a bucket of rusty horse shoes.

[iclark]

In his video, Mike planes the top edges of the skirts and cross supports to make sure that they're all the same, and I'm concerned that the #5 isn't long enough to do a suitable job of flattening that top edge, especially along the full length of the bench.  If I could get all those the same, then I could pull the top down against that framework and keep things pretty stable.  I'll agree with you that it's probably unreasonable to expect the top of a SYP bench to stay dead level, but it'd be nice to have it that way at least to start with. 

Don't have a power jointer.  Never had the room for one.  Mike's plan has a gap along the center of the table with a filler that you can either pop up to plane against or remove and use the slot provided for F clamps, so the two sides of the top aren't glued together.  They are glued down to the skirts and bearers though.

To be honest, I've never even seen but a couple of wooden planes, and then nothing like the long ones you're talking about.  There's one for sale in a junk store about 40 miles away, but it's in the place where it really needs to be, a junk store... split and cracked, and REALLY beat up.  I've also never seen a #8, other than in pictures and on Mike's video.  Central Texas isn't exactly a hand tool mecca.

The secret to getting a long board edge straight does not lie in the length of the plane.

It lies in the straight edge and the pencil of the woodworker.

The longer plane just makes sure that the undulations in the edge have a longer period.

If you do not have a functional method to identify the high spots and mark them for removal, your path to flatness will be problematic.

Once you can identify and mark, then the different length planes can help, but it is the user's skill that is fundamental. Skill comes with practice.

I would recommend sharpening the #5 and make yourself a straight-edge the length of the boards that you will be using for the bench. The practice will help and that straight-edge will serve you well as you make the bench. Do sight along it occasionally as you use it to make sure that moisture changes have not bent the board.