in need of planing advice
#14
I'm not sure Mr Sellers even owns a plane over a #5 LOL.

That said, you're laminating a bench I wouldn't worry about jointing, just getting the faces flat and clamp it up.
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#15
(11-24-2020, 01:09 AM)iclark Wrote: The secret to getting a long board edge straight does not lie in the length of the plane.

It lies in the straight edge and the pencil of the woodworker.

The longer plane just makes sure that the undulations in the edge have a longer period.

If you do not have a functional method to identify the high spots and mark them for removal, your path to flatness will be problematic.

Once you can identify and mark, then the different length planes can help, but it is the user's skill that is fundamental. Skill comes with practice.

I would recommend sharpening the #5 and make yourself a straight-edge the length of the boards that you will be using for the bench. The practice will help and that straight-edge will serve you well as you make the bench. Do sight along it occasionally as you use it to make sure that moisture changes have not bent the board.

Use of a straightedge is no secret. The process you describe is very typical of machine tool reconditioning, which I'm also familiar with. That process relies on master surfaces to check parts (or scraping masters) against. It is a process of marking and removing high spots. As a woodworking process, (don't take this as an insult) working wood surfaces straight with a small tool and a straight edge is medieval. I have used this process to flatten stock with a chisel and also with nothing more than a hatchet and a straightedge. This is a fun and rewarding method, but having tried it several different ways, I would never give up my long planes.

A long plane is the traditional method of straightening boards edges (i.e. traditional = before the machine age). The long plane is both your straight edge and your method of marking (as well as removal of) high spots. For centuries woodworkers have relied on their long planes, likely their most precious planes. The use of a try plane to both straighten and square a long edge may well have once been a secret. I will describe the process I use:

I use a 26" try plane for most flattening and straightening. This tool has a rounded iron, not as rounded as my jack/fore plane but more rounded than my smoother. This plane is not technically a jointer plane. There may be some ancient reference that I once read and now forgot that distinguishes the two. In my shop the jointer is only subtly different from the try plane. My jointer is longer than my try plane, has a wider blade, and the blade is perfectly straight across - no camber.

To straighten an edge (I can use either a try plane or jointer but for reasons I'll explain later, I always use my try plane), I center my try plane on the edge length wise (so, at 4' when planning an 8' board). I back the plane up 6" and push it forward 1'. I repeat this process backing up a bit more on each subsequent stroke until I have planed a hollow in the board. I know I have a hollow because the plane stops cutting. The key is not to touch the wood on the ends of the board.

Once the hollow is created, I start at one end, pressure on the toe, and make a pass finishing with all my pressure on the heel of the plane. I continue until the plane creates a single continuous shaving of uniform thickness. At that point the edge will be perfectly flat easily to within the length of the plane. I do this in demos with my eyes closed and ask the audience to close theirs. When the plane makes that final full thickness pass, you can hear the difference in the sound the cut makes and you know you are there. In dreary 18th c London, techniques like this must have been developed to allow workers to function in low light conditions, or despite far sightedness. Winters in London may only have 6 or 7 good hours of daylight when the weather is clear. Pencil lines are virtually impossible to see.

Many times, when I am straightening an edge with a try plane, that means I'm not gluing up a panel. So this could be an edge of a table top or front edge of a chest carcase. So the squareness of the edge is important to me (unlike the squareness of a match planed edge). In this case the trick is to use the curved iron of your try plane to square the edge by centering the plane on the high edge. Doing this removes a shaving of triangular cross section (ask if this isn't clear). The advantage to this method is, you don't need to try to hold the plane any certain way. It remains flat on the edge at all times. Second, you can remove a twist (typical of hand sawn edges) by move the plane from side to side as you plane the edge. With some practice, you can both straighten and square the edge simultaneously.

I'm not sure if everyone knows this, so maybe its a secret, but everyone should know this. Don't let me convince anyone using a straight edge is a BAD idea. Of course its not.

Some modern woodworkers seem to attempt to get their hand tools to do what their machines do. This could be fine, or they could be missing a legitimate secret from the past. My take is, all woodworkers should know as many techniques as they can so they can choose the process that best fits the application.

If you didn't know the techniques I described, please send me a PM so that I know whether this is helping anyone at all. If you did know, please respond publically to tell me to shut it because that will tell me I did an okay job promoting this technique.

Adam
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#16
(11-24-2020, 03:32 PM)adamcherubini Wrote: Use of a straightedge is no secret.  The process you describe is very typical of machine tool reconditioning, which I'm also familiar with. That process relies on master surfaces to check parts (or scraping masters) against.  It is a process of marking and removing high spots. As a woodworking process, (don't take this as an insult) working wood surfaces straight with a small tool and a straight edge is medieval. I have used this process to flatten stock with a chisel and also with nothing more than a hatchet and a straightedge. This is a fun and rewarding method, but having tried it several different ways, I would never give up my long planes.

A long plane is the traditional method of straightening boards edges (i.e. traditional = before the machine age).  The long plane is both your straight edge and your method of marking (as well as removal of) high spots. For centuries woodworkers have relied on their long planes, likely their most precious planes. The use of a try plane to both straighten and square a long edge may well have once been a secret. I will describe the process I use:

<snip for brevity of a most excellent process description>


Big Grin Nothing there to take as an insult.
Cool 

and, yes, I overstated it when I called it a secret.
Yes 

At some point, though, it seems to become the challenge to quit searching for better tools and to use the tools that you have that are good enough to get the job done. A #5 plane is a lot larger than a chisel or a spokeshave for flattening stock. Using a #5 to make a reference surface can be good practice when one does not have much practice with planes or has been away from them for a while. That gives one some muscle memory and a gage to see when your flattening (with any tool) of the boards for the project is good enough.

I appreciate your description of your process and hope to apply it when I build my bench. Assuming my hips still let me plane the length of the boards when that time comes, I will get to spend some time fettling my larger planes before I do that. I have been accumulating the iron planes from #3 to #8 to do so.

As in many things, better is the enemy of good.

Sometimes, it is just time to joint the board.
"the most important safety feature on any tool is the one between your ears." - Ken Vick

A wish for you all:  May you keep buying green bananas.
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