Question about raised panels
#10
  
Todays project is to prepare raised panels for cabinet doors.

I used stick and cope bits to make the 4 inch wide rails and stiles, and the raised panels will be solid red oak about 12 inches wide and 30 inches long.

I will use space balls to allow for the expansion and contraction of the solid wood, but when I cut the raised panels to the exact width, how much should the space balls be compressed when I glue the rails to the stiles?

Before anyone asks, I am in Pennsylvania and I recently purchased the wood from a lumber mill where the wood was stored in an outdoor covered lean to/shed. 

Also do I need space balls inserted in the rails?

Jay
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#11
  Re: Question about raised panels by cme4dk (Todays project is to...)
I use space balls all around. You don't need them on the rails since the wood doesn't really move in that dimension, but it does help simplify measurements and alignment. They actually don't compress very well at all, and if you allow too little space the door can deform during clamping.

There are different sizes, but I would generally assume that they can compress no more than 25% or so. It will still be quite snug.
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#12
  Re: RE: Question about raised panels by FS7 (I use space balls al...)
(11-25-2020, 09:35 AM)FS7 Wrote: I use space balls all around. You don't need them on the rails since the wood doesn't really move in that dimension, but it does help simplify measurements and alignment. They actually don't compress very well at all, and if you allow too little space the door can deform during clamping.

There are different sizes, but I would generally assume that they can compress no more than 25% or so. It will still be quite snug.

Never used the spaceballs, tho' I have used pieces of window screen spline. I have used it on all 4 sides, as even though the panel doesn't expand, is there not a concern for the rails to move? 4" is wider than any frame I have made, almost always under 3" for me...
Always looking to gain from those more knowlegeable than me, (which excludes v e r y few of you <grin>)
Thanks in advance
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#13
  Re: RE: Question about raised panels by brianwelch ([quote='FS7' pid='79...)
(11-25-2020, 09:43 AM)brianwelch Wrote: Never used the spaceballs, tho' I have used pieces of window screen spline. I have used it on all 4 sides, as even though the panel doesn't expand, is there not a concern for the rails to move? 4" is wider than any frame I have made, almost always under 3" for me...
Always looking to gain from those more knowlegeable than me, (which excludes v e r y few of you <grin>)
Thanks in advance

The glue is going to prevent a lot of movement, especially with the average length of the rail. At probably 12" or so for an average raised panel rail length, the likelihood of "bulging" - the rail is glued on the ends, but more free to move in the middle - is pretty low. Even at a 4" width I would expect very little. The average breadboard end is fixed for probably at least 4" in the center. That doesn't mean there isn't internal stress, but it's probably not significant. I would also imagine that any potential movement where the rail is not constrained by glue (in the middle) it would be more likely to move in the free direction (opposite the panel) rather than into it. Path of least resistance and all.

For what it's worth I have lived in a temperate climate my entire life. Here in VA we can see hundred degree extremes throughout the year. I do try to maintain a constant humidity to limit movement, but I have done a lot of things that were otherwise not advised that have not resulted in split joints or anything of the sort. Only once have I had a stained raised panel shrink enough to reveal unstained wood, and it was on pine of all things (which doesn't move much). Wood movement is certainly an issue in many regards, but I don't think it's necessary to worry to this degree.
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#14
  Re: Question about raised panels by cme4dk (Todays project is to...)
A lot depends upon how deep the dado is in your sticking.  With 1/2" you can use 1/4" diameter space balls.  With about 1/16" compression (25%) your panel will sit deep enough that seasonal expansion/contraction won't cause the panel to fall out.  But with 3/8" deep sticking and 1/4" space balls the panel only projects 3/16" into the dado, which doesn't seem like enough to me.  When I was faced with that situation because of the cope/stick router bit set I had I cut the space balls in half so I could have more panel captured in the dado.  Backer rod would allow you to do the same thing.  Some folks make their own custom balls or rods from caulking, too.  

In any case, if you are staining the panels, I recommend you do that and apply a coat of finish before you glue up the doors to avoid unfinished areas showing up in the Winter when the panels shrink.  Whether or not you prefinish, keep the finish off the panel/door interface so you don't inadvertently glue the panels into the frames.  That's a sure recipe for panel cracking or the sticking cracking.  

John
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#15
  Re: Question about raised panels by cme4dk (Todays project is to...)
I put the balls on all 4 pieces. I cut the panel 3/16" smaller on width and length.
Steve

Missouri






 
The Revos apparently are designed to clamp railroad ties and pull together horrifically prepared joints
WaterlooMark 02/9/2020








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#16
  Re: RE: Question about raised panels by Stwood_ (I put the balls on a...)
I prefer to use Paneline strips.  They are 1/4" thick and I figure by subtracting 1/4" from the groove-to-groove distance.  This will compress the foam about 1/8" on each side.  Most all the time I'm dealing with shrinkage, not expansion.

I do use them in the rails, too, just to keep the profile centered.
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#17
  Re: Question about raised panels by cme4dk (Todays project is to...)
You guys are great, thank you

jay
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#18
  Re: RE: Question about raised panels by cme4dk (You guys are great, ...)
I forgot to mention, if these are air dried, you better check the moisture content.

I'm sure PA is not the same, but air dry where I am is 14-16%.
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