Cross-grain Planing successes

[wmickley]

Warren I think you live for this sort of stuff. I’m just now catching on. So you are saying Paul measured the maximum extent of this stock? Such that if one side is concave by a 1/16” the other side must be convex by a 1/16” but when corrected the edge will only be 1/16 thinner than it started?

So if Paul had a 1” thick board cupped 1/16” it would measure 1-1/18” if laid on a surface plate. You are blowing my mind. So he started with a 1” thick board, planed 1/16 from both faces and is left with a board 15/16” thick?

Yeah, I don’t measure boards on a surface plate either. I measure an edge.

I think this is pretty esoteric, even for us.

Paul Sellers says he has planed "all day, every day" for over fifty years. He certainly does not have the expertise one would expect from someone who has done hand dimension work with any kind of regularity.

There are two important issues here. One is that you want to do as little work as possible. That means when you flatten a side you take wood from the high spots and leave the low spots nearly intact. What we see from a lot of bloggers is some scheme where they blindly take wood from everywhere (both diagonals, for instance) or crosswise planing every square inch with a heavy cut. This results in extra work and loss of material.

Loss of material is the other issue. Sometimes there is 3/16 or so of extra material in thickness after flattening on side, so there is no worries about using too much to true. Other times because of warp or sawing, the material is tight. This is where hand work really excels. Because you can take off material so selectively, hand work can preserve more thickness. And the time to figure out if there is loads of extra thickness or things are going to be tight is at the beginning, before starting willy nilly to remove material. This stuff is important for efficient work.

[AHill]

Paul Sellers says he has planed "all day, every day" for over fifty years. He certainly does not have the expertise one would expect from someone who has done hand dimension work with any kind of regularity.

I'm curious, Warren.  Aside from yourself, who do you consider to be reliable sources on how to use hand tools?  I don't want to waste my time learning from people that have it all wrong.

[bandit571]

Why is it...that the moment anyone even mentions those two words.."Paul"  and "Sellers"....there is always someone that will show up to bash the guy?  

Almost like starting a "Sharpening Thread"   always someone comes by with a " My Sensei is more powerful than YOUR Sensei.."  schtick.....

My post was not about Sellers this and Sellers that...it WAS however showing how I took one of Sellers ideas, and adapted it for my own use, in my own shop.   Yes, I do go across the grain, I also go at a diagonal across the grain, and..I have been known to plane WITH the grain..from time to time.    usually, it is a blend of all three....IF you are scared of splintering an edge..stop just before you get to the edge, hang a left (or right) and go along the edge with the grain....

mainly..

   
I am pushing straight ahead, holding the plane at an angle....gives a slicing cut.....Plane is a Stanley No. 3, type 11.....nice and light, and easy to move around as needed.

[adamcherubini]

Paul Sellers says he has planed "all day, every day" for over fifty years. He certainly does not have the expertise one would expect from someone who has done hand dimension work with any kind of regularity.

There are two important issues here. One is that you want to do as little work as possible. That means when you flatten a side you take wood from the high spots and leave the low spots nearly intact. What we see from a lot of bloggers is some scheme where they blindly take wood from everywhere (both diagonals, for instance) or crosswise planing every square inch with a heavy cut. This results in extra work and loss of material.

Loss of material is the other issue. Sometimes there is 3/16 or so of extra material in thickness after flattening on side, so there is no worries about using too much to true. Other times because of warp or sawing, the material is tight. This is where hand work really excels. Because you can take off material so selectively, hand work can preserve more thickness. And the time to figure out if there is loads of extra thickness or things are going to be tight is at the beginning, before starting willy nilly to remove material. This stuff is important for efficient work.

I was just trying to have fun with planing 1/8” and losing a 1/16” of thickness.

FWIW, I had the exact same reaction to the video and more. What was that board for? Why was he flattening it? The grain orientation looked like something I advise using for fire wood. He could plane that board every day for the next 50 years and it won’t stay flat.

I think he was just trying to make a point about different kinds of planing besides smooth planing machine prepared stock.

I was looking at a very fine 18th chest in the Philly museum’s conservation lab. Wide mahogany sides were planed nicely (but may have been refinished a dozen times). Insides were pretty darned rough. At the top and bottom dovetail joints where the top and bottom were joined, it was pretty clear someone had flattened only the ends of the sides with a jack plane directly cross grain. Looked like it was one minute of work.

I don’t think Sellers is suggesting how to surface stock for furniture (tho maybe he is). What he showed in the video is not how I surface stock. I don’t cross plane the way he did. And I was surprised to see him trusting such short planes and declaring surfaces flat or straight. As a teacher, I would not have said that. If you want straight or flat, you need a long tool.

[adamcherubini]

I'm curious, Warren.  Aside from yourself, who do you consider to be reliable sources on how to use hand tools?  I don't want to waste my time learning from people that have it all wrong.

Can I answer? Warren’s reliable sources are Andre Roubo, Peter Nicholson, Joseph Moxon, Holtzapfel, and the countless nameless craftsmen who built the 18 th c furniture Warren owns, or has examined over his long career as a woodworker.

[hbmcc]

Can I answer? Warren’s reliable sources are Andre Roubo, Peter Nicholson, Joseph Moxon, Holtzapfel, and the countless nameless craftsmen who built the 18 th c furniture Warren owns, or has examined over his long career as a woodworker.

Dane'-it! Not even Norm?

Am I wrong, but aren't these historical references actually writers? Not so much career woodworkers? However, archeology (with scientific method*) is definitely educational.


* How sad that one now must separate fake from truth.

[hbmcc]

Steve, you make ash look easy to work. Is it easier when air dried? Or, no different from commercial kiln dried ash?

--A stretch for being on-topic.

PS. Mean little people always need someone to malign. Sometimes, some of those people are better off gone. However, I don't think anyone was putting down P.S.. Technically.

[bandit571]

Sharp fixes everything. 

Ash I use is at least 6 years of air drying in a pole barn rack....

Careful....there's that P.S. name, again......you'll be bringing down the wrath of Warren.....

Not everyone chooses to work like it's 1805, again......

[wmickley]

Dane'-it! Not even Norm?

Am I wrong, but aren't these historical references actually writers? Not so much career woodworkers? However, archeology (with scientific method*) is definitely educational.


* How sad that one now must separate fake from truth.

You are a little short on truth. All these men were trained craftsmen.

Andre Roubo (1739-1791)  was a master woodworker in Paris, as were his father and grandfather. They made interior woodwork for fancy houses.

Peter Nicholson (1765-1844) was trained as a cabinetmaker in Scotland and then worked as a journeyman cabinetmaker in Edinburgh and London. He took classes at night to learn mathematics and architecture, then retired from cabinetmaking at around age 30.

Charles Holtzapffel (1806-1847) was part of a family that made ornamental lathes for woodworkers. They also made edge tools. 

Joseph Moxon was trained as a printer in Amsterdam, where his family fled because of religious persecution in England. Back in England he started a printing business, then a publishing house. In Mechanick's Exercises 1678, the section on Printing was one of the stronger sections but the section on Joinery was one of the weaker.

[hbmcc]

You are a little short on truth. All these men were trained craftsmen.

Short? You are too kind. Thank you for the correction. Man! I fell off the turnip cart that time.