Ordering new Saw Stop
#21
  Re: RE: Ordering new Saw Stop by fredhargis ([quote='Handplanesan...)
(01-07-2021, 12:34 PM)fredhargis Wrote: Now wait a minute, it may depend on the definition of "effective", but the heavy tube picks up dust leagues better than the stock guard, at least in my experience. With the puny one on a shop vac, it still didn't catch the dust the tube does....but I concede I have a CV with the big impeller. There's also no adjusting when you cut different thicknesses, the basket floats up over anything up to probably 2 1/2" or so. I also concede the tube may be less handy when making blind cuts and yu have to move it out of the way....but to me the better DC is reason enough to use it. I sold the stock guard I had to someone with a Rigid, apparently it's a common conversion.

Here's why I think the blade guard is better after using both systems. If you cut a thin piece, you'd want to lower the tube's shroud close to its surface. Then you'll have to raise the shroud and lock it when your next piece to cut is thicker. You can leave a huge gap above the stock, at the sacrifice of max dust collection. I found the tube I used heavy and pushing it in and out took an effort when I trimmed stock of different widths too. Might be the new tube is different. Lastly, there's in practice no gap between the dust blade guard and the stock. If properly hooked up for suction, the sawstop blade guard has the best design for dust collection out there. Sawstop claims 99% of effectiveness; my experience - 90% to 100% depending the nature of cuts (cross cuts and edge cuts fare under 100%).

If I remember it correctly, the overarm dust collection is a lot cheaper, and it takes up no extra footprint. Simon
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#22
  Re: Ordering new Saw Stop by AztecKing (I'm getting ready to...)
(01-07-2021, 01:43 PM)Handplanesandmore Wrote: Here's why I think the blade guard is better after using both systems. If you cut a thin piece, you'd want to lower the tube's shroud close to its surface. Then you'll have to raise the shroud and lock it when your next piece to cut is thicker. You can leave a huge gap above the stock, at the sacrifice of max dust collection.

If I remember it correctly, the overarm dust collection is a lot cheaper, and it takes up no extra footprint. Simon

Nope, that's not the way mine works. The basket sits on the saw table, as you push wood through it the basket rides up on the workpiece and lets it pass, then drops to the table. Works that way for all thicknesses. In fact the basket has an adjustable counterweight on the arm to adjust just how easily it rises up and over the work piece. If you tried to support the basket above the workpiece I can see why you wouldn't want to use one...I know I wouldn't. But letting it work the proper way assures the dust is collected. You are correct, the other less effective one is cheaper. I don't know what you mean about the footprint, my Excalibur didn't increase the saw's footprint more than a few inches at the end of the extension table.
I started with absolutely nothing. Now, thanks to years of hard work, careful planning, and perseverance, I find I still have most of it left.
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#23
  Re: RE: Ordering new Saw Stop by fredhargis ([quote='Handplanesan...)
(01-07-2021, 02:26 PM)fredhargis Wrote: You are correct, the other less effective one is cheaper. I don't know what you mean about the footprint, my Excalibur didn't increase the saw's footprint more than a few inches at the end of the extension table.

Overarm dust collection being less effective? So the tube has more than 99% effectiveness? Where did you find the floating tube being claimed as having 99%+efficiency?

The overarm is bolted to the back of saw with no footprint; the floating tube however takes up that extra few inches of footprint on the side. For some shops, that extra inches can make a difference, if the saw is placed between two stationary objects, one if which could be the wall.

I'm not saying the floating arm doesn't have its benefits, but from a dust collection/cost perspective, the overarm blade guard is what I'd recommend to a typical amateur woodworker based on my experience with both of them (I used the floating arm type (an old one) for years before the blade guard).

This is the official recommendation from sawstop:

"If your first priority is dust collection, we recommend the TSG-DC (dust collection blade guard) with our TSA-ODC (overarm dust collection); which will add at least 100 CFM to the recommended saw CFM.

If you are looking for a more versatile workspace while maintaining guarding and dust collection in non-through cuts, we recommend the TSG-FDC (floating dust collection guard). The height of the TSG-FDC guard above the table/workpiece must be adjusted by the user, while the TSG-DC guard dynamically adjusts to each workpiece, helping to keep the blade guarded and optimizing dust collection.

Because of the open guard shell design, the TSG-FDC will require much more CFM to achieve a similar result (at least 400 CFM at the point of collection). With our TSG-DC and TSA-ODC in place on a SawStop cabinet saw, you should achieve 99% dust collection.

The TSG-FDC dust collection efficiency has not been tested for a percentage and is highly dependent on proper guard height and CFM."


Simon
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#24
  Re: Ordering new Saw Stop by AztecKing (I'm getting ready to...)
No idea if the tube is 99%, but I can tell you it's a lot better than the stock pickup.....I think I mentioned: it takes a real DC to make that happen with the tube. But I'm just pointing put some things based on my experience with both systems that must be different than your experience. If someone is ordering a new saw, they deserve to have all the opinions in front of them.
I started with absolutely nothing. Now, thanks to years of hard work, careful planning, and perseverance, I find I still have most of it left.
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#25
  Re: RE: Ordering new Saw Stop by fredhargis (No idea if the tube ...)
I don't have the floating arm, and just hooked up a pvc pipe that comes out and goes to the left a few inches above the table.  I went with a single dust collection and a Y and a hose, put a reducer in the hose to the underside to increase the suction to the blade guard.
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#26
  Re: Ordering new Saw Stop by AztecKing (I'm getting ready to...)
I am sorry I don't have an opinion on which type of dust collection works the best. I do not have over the saw blade dust collection nor have I ever had it. I do do a lot of planning cuts and any over the blade dust collection would be wonderful, But usually in March and April Saw Stop offers a free Mobil base or dust collection. If you can wait until then you can get one free and buy the other one. If you are wondering which way to go one or the other of your problems is free.

The temp in my unheated shop was 29 degrees and in my opinion to cold to work safely. It will set idle until the end of March, which is prefect timing,. except for the fact I need to sell my General 350 to help swing the deal.

I will however look into the two types mentioned here but I will probably go with what ever Saw Stop offers as a incentive to purchase because it is free. And anything is better than none.

I can wait because I am not doing any sawing, but if you can't wait I wish you well on your choice.

Tom
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#27
  Re: Ordering new Saw Stop by AztecKing (I'm getting ready to...)
Here's what I bought with my SS: An extra cartridge, a dado cartridge, an extra insert and a mobile base (the cheaper one). I already had a Freud dado blade set and a work bench to be used as an outfeed table. So far that's all the extra stuff I've needed.
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#28
  Re: Ordering new Saw Stop by AztecKing (I'm getting ready to...)
I appreciate all the help so far from all of you. In my shop I'll go with the ICS mobile base since I need it to be pretty mobile. I'm still on the fence about dust collection. 

Jeff
It's time for the patriots to stand up!
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#29
  Re: RE: Ordering new Saw Stop by tablesawtom (I am sorry I don't h...)
(01-07-2021, 07:47 PM)tablesawtom Wrote: I do not have over the saw blade dust collection nor have I ever had it. I do do a lot of planning cuts and any over the blade dust collection would be wonderful,
Tom

Provided the proper dust collection HP is there, no matter which sawstop dust collection option is chosen, it'll be day and night between your current situation and when you get your sawstop for most cuts. The cloud of dust that might happen in your shop should never happen with the sawstop. Even if you're cutting MDF. Or should I say, especially if you're cutting MDF.

Simon
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#30
  Re: RE: Ordering new Saw Stop by Handplanesandmore ([quote='tablesawtom'...)
(01-07-2021, 08:13 PM)Handplanesandmore Wrote: Provided the proper dust collection HP is there, no matter which sawstop dust collection option is chosen, it'll be day and night between your current situation and when you get your sawstop for most cuts. The cloud of dust that might happen in your shop should never happen with the sawstop. Even if you're cutting MDF. Or should I say, especially if you're cutting MDF.

Simon

Absolutely true, some kind of overblade collection is a must, IMO.
I started with absolutely nothing. Now, thanks to years of hard work, careful planning, and perseverance, I find I still have most of it left.
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