Premature Failure of Pressure Treated (Ground Contact) wood
#11
  
I wonder if any here have experienced loss in constructed projects due to early failure of treated wood. 

In 2009 I rebuilt my backyard fence. New posts rated at 30 years--standard for Ground Contact, Pressure Treated Wood--were installed per industry standards using prepackaged concrete backfill. In 2018 one post was found to have failed (shear due to rot) several inches below grade. In the fall of 2020 several more posts had also rotted and failed. I checked the fenceline yesterday (March, 2021) and found 7 posts of 24 installed had failed, and required replacement. 

Thirty percent failure of treated wood in the first third of 'working' life is alarming and indicates errors in the treatment standards.
Heirlooms are self-important fiction so build what you like. Someone may find it useful.
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#12
  Re: Premature Failure of Pressure Treated (Ground Contact) wood by hbmcc (I wonder if any here...)
A neighbor, when he built an addition, used all wood for the basement wall. When I asked if he wasn’t afraid that it would rot, said, “Supposed to last 90 years.”
Are there different grades of the stuff?
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#13
  Re: Premature Failure of Pressure Treated (Ground Contact) wood by hbmcc (I wonder if any here...)
I installed 50 PT fence posts about 35 years ago. Purchased from Hechingers (RIP, as of 1999). As long as they were in business they replaced my posts, no questions asked. Posts started failing, right at grade, within 5 years of installation, and as of now, I have replaced almost every one of them, the last 2 decades at my own expense (2 to 3 per year)...Nothing lasts as long as it's supposed to, and I gave up trying to get anything covered...
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#14
  Re: Premature Failure of Pressure Treated (Ground Contact) wood by hbmcc (I wonder if any here...)
(03-24-2021, 01:24 PM)hbmcc Wrote: I wonder if any here have experienced loss in constructed projects due to early failure of treated wood. 

In 2009 I rebuilt my backyard fence. New posts rated at 30 years--standard for Ground Contact, Pressure Treated Wood--were installed per industry standards using prepackaged concrete backfill. In 2018 one post was found to have failed (shear due to rot) several inches below grade. In the fall of 2020 several more posts had also rotted and failed. I checked the fenceline yesterday (March, 2021) and found 7 posts of 24 installed had failed, and required replacement. 

Thirty percent failure of treated wood in the first third of 'working' life is alarming and indicates errors in the treatment standards.

Ground contact means the lumber is installed near or on the ground, not below grade.  There is a different grade of treated lumber for anything in the ground like fence posts.
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#15
  Re: Premature Failure of Pressure Treated (Ground Contact) wood by hbmcc (I wonder if any here...)
We installed about 10 below grade 6x6 deck posts nearly 3 foot deep about 32 years ago. Just pulled them up last fall and to my surprise they were in perfect condition. Even the edges were crisp and sharp.....looked the same as the day we first put them in.  

At the time I used the same lumber and installed them as paver borders. Cut half laps at the ends and spiked to join them. Wherever the posts were cut started to rot out about 5-8 years ago and now there's hardly anything left of them two feet from the ends.
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#16
  Re: RE: Premature Failure of Pressure Treated (Ground Contact) wood by brianwelch (I installed 50 PT fe...)
(03-24-2021, 03:33 PM)brianwelch Wrote: I installed 50 PT fence posts about 35 years ago. Purchased from Hechingers (RIP, as of 1999). As long as they were in business they replaced my posts, no questions asked. Posts started failing, right at grade, within 5 years of installation, and as of now, I have replaced almost every one of them, the last 2 decades at my own expense (2 to 3 per year)...Nothing lasts as long as it's supposed to, and I gave up trying to get anything covered...

Good ol' Hechinger. They don't make them like that anymore. I worked for them towards the end. I was convinced they could have made it if they just didn't try to be HD. Better quality products from lumber to sheetrock. It was sad to see them go.

A couple things to do with posts... Mound the concrete at the top to help water runoff. 4" of stone under the post before pouring the concrete to allow for drainage.
Neil Summers Home Inspections


When it comes to 'lectricity, I'm a pretty good wood turner.

... Grey Mountain 3/2/21

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#17
  Re: Premature Failure of Pressure Treated (Ground Contact) wood by hbmcc (I wonder if any here...)
From seeing the comments here, and doing a little more looking, I am pretty convinced we have scattergun standards and the treating industry likes it that way. Confusion.  

I could blow off the cost of the fence failure *if* I was a big dick with gobs of investor money spilling out of my pockets. And, had no personal investment in the job. But I am not. At the time I dismantled the old fence and rebuilt it I was going through heart failure and running on under twenty percent. I got the heart news the following Christmas. This waste of my precious time, and really f***ing hard work, pisses me off. 

I am going after scum bags.....  Big Grin
Heirlooms are self-important fiction so build what you like. Someone may find it useful.
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#18
  Re: Premature Failure of Pressure Treated (Ground Contact) wood by hbmcc (I wonder if any here...)
I've seen lots of treated pine posts in the lumber yards that had white centers.
White centers tells me the chemical hasn't been pressured throughout the post.
Steve

Missouri






 
The Revos apparently are designed to clamp railroad ties and pull together horrifically prepared joints
WaterlooMark 02/9/2020








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#19
  Re: Premature Failure of Pressure Treated (Ground Contact) wood by hbmcc (I wonder if any here...)
(03-24-2021, 01:24 PM)hbmcc Wrote: I wonder if any here have experienced loss in constructed projects due to early failure of treated wood. 

In 2009 I rebuilt my backyard fence. New posts rated at 30 years--standard for Ground Contact, Pressure Treated Wood--were installed per industry standards using prepackaged concrete backfill. In 2018 one post was found to have failed (shear due to rot) several inches below grade. In the fall of 2020 several more posts had also rotted and failed. I checked the fenceline yesterday (March, 2021) and found 7 posts of 24 installed had failed, and required replacement. 

Thirty percent failure of treated wood in the first third of 'working' life is alarming and indicates errors in the treatment standards.
Hi -
I don't know if you followed the recommendation of bedding the end of the post on top of gravel before sheathing the post with concrete.  In my experience few follow that requirement including the contractors around here.  The problem being wood moves.  If it is put in wet (as purchased) it shrinks in the summer and the fall rains fill that nice concrete pocket around the post.  If they go in dry, they swell with the first rains and crack that low sack mix we all use for setting posts and sometimes that pocket will drain - but usually not.  Wet=rot.  My Dad worked in the wood preservative industry as a chemist and no preservative is designed to fully penetrate the wood.  So avoid water and avoid cutting through the preservative layer.  My favorite mistake is folks who buy longer posts for a short wall to save money, cut them in half and then bury the unevenly colored end for aesthetic reasons. A maybe 4-5 year wall...
So - the last time my fence posts rotted out from that contractor error, I reinforced and removed the still good panels.  I pulled the rotted posts and vacuumed out the hole.  I did some quick and dirty alteration on stirrup style post supports so they would fit into the old concrete sleeves.  I then set the supports in place with some high cement content mortar mix making certain that the new (treated) post's end would be above the soil profile.  Bolted them in place and reinstalled the panels after modifying for length as needed.
I figure if I need to ever replace the posts again in my lifetime, it's unbolt and replace.  BTW I did saturate the bolt holes with copper napthelate preservative after drilling to minimize fungal growth starting in the otherwise untreated wood.
I think it'll last well. (10 yrs so far.)
Tom
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#20
  Re: Premature Failure of Pressure Treated (Ground Contact) wood by hbmcc (I wonder if any here...)
I built my deck at about that same time - 2009/10.  About 2017 I noticed rot in a few 2x6 select pine deckboards.  Getting soft and deteriorating rapidly.  I stain my deck with Siikens opaque stain.  So, I was scratching my head.  Thankfully I had saved a few of the tags stapled to the end of the boards that stated lifetime warranty.  My local family-owned lumber yard replaced the boards no questions asked.  Over about two years I ended up getting about ⅓ of the boards replaced (20x25 deck).  Then I noticed the 2x10 joists were perishing along with more and more deck boards. Deck becoming unsafe.

I took a lot of photos and went to the lumbar yard.  I insisted they should not take the hit and they referred me to the manufacturer who referred me to their treatment process company.  

To make a long story short, apparently at that time the newly minted regulations about PT wood that shifted away from the old green wood process that used arsenic, etc. to the new copper based process had caused a need for the industry to move faster than they were able in order to stay in business.  Anyway, turns out the process was not fully perfected and as a result treatment was inadequate in many cases, like mine.  If course I had no knowledge of any of this at the time, and I consider myself pretty well informed.  Guess not about this.

So, in the end the manufacturer helped me open a claim with the process company.  

I am not at liberty to discuss any further, but I can report that I tore the deck down completely, salvaged a very few joists but none of the decking, and also replaced one of the 2x12 beams that had a bit of fungus rot developing just to be safe (when you've gone that far, it was like $100 to go ahead and rebuild that beam). 

I also took the opportunity to use the Camo hidden fastener system for the new decking.  That worked great and has the new decking looking 10x better than previously.  Not expensive either compared to all the other systems out there. Fastener jig is $50 and screws are about the same as regular deck screws but go in faster with no stripped heads or splitting near the ends of boards.

I will say that I am very satisfied with how things worked out and cannot say anything more.  So, I would suggest contacting the manufacturer and filing a claim if your wood is of the newer process.
sleepy hollow

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