Beware of MattyLims
#21
  Re: RE: Beware of MattyLims by Scott W ([quote='taxman' pid=...)
(07-16-2021, 08:11 AM)Scott W Wrote: Lots of the ads on this site by people who have been around for years have used pp f&f as a pay option. I disagree with the back of the truck comparison.

The PP F&F was designed for exactly that: transferring funds between friends and family.

It has often been discussed here whether or not it is a violation of the PP TOS to use F&F for sales here.

There are WNers who have developed friendships here over the years and, while using F&F for transactions here may dance on the edge of the TOS, it does seem to fit within the "friends" definition. (IMHO (speaking for myself))

The risk is high, though, for using PP F&F to make payment to someone whose only post is an offer to sell something in SnS or to receive payment from someone whose only post is an "I'll take it" in SnS.

Members need to understand that risk.

I am sure that the back-of-the-truck comparison was not aimed at WNers with 10K or 100K posts.

It is for the people who are so new that they might turn out to be good long-term WNers or they may be spammers that we do not have enough evidence to ban/purge yet.

I would strongly dis-recommend using PP F&F to pay for anything offered in SnS by someone who only has 1 or very few WN posts.

Edited to add: no offense or disrespect intended towards the WNers who have been around a long time but who average less than one or 2 posts per year. We have many very good people who prefer to lurk and learn, but who rarely post.
"the most important safety feature on any tool is the one between your ears." - Ken Vick

A wish for you all:  May you keep buying green bananas.
#22
  Re: RE: Beware of MattyLims by Elijah A. (Yeah, I may try that...)
(07-15-2021, 02:43 PM)theoldfart Wrote: If your PayPal draws on a credit card you can dispute with the credit card company.

(07-15-2021, 02:48 PM)Elijah A. Wrote: Yeah, I may try that.

Please do try that.

It would be good to hear an update on what your credit card company does.
"the most important safety feature on any tool is the one between your ears." - Ken Vick

A wish for you all:  May you keep buying green bananas.
#23
  Re: Beware of MattyLims by Elijah A. (I purchased an axe h...)
I'm 99% sure you can't avoid fees using F&F if you're using a credit card. You only avoid fees by using a direct withdraw from you bank. So, assuming someone was taking steps to avoid PayPal fees, they're probably simply out of luck in a situation like this

Tyler
#24
  Re: Beware of MattyLims by Elijah A. (I purchased an axe h...)
Recently bought something on this forum...   The seller DID NOT say F&F...  I added a small amount to purchase to help him with the PP fees..

I do not believe F&F is for ANY kind of purchase.   When you transfer via PP, it asks very clearly if it is a purchase.

I think PP fees are higher than they need to be however it is my choice whether to use PP or not. 

Do not agree with statement about "back of truck",  just some folks will try to save/keep a nickel anyway possible.

If someone is selling something I am interested in and specifies F&F, will ask him how much the PP fee is and add it to purchase price.

Have been a member for 14 years and do not consider other members as friends as such, simply fellow woodworkers.
Some mistakes are too much fun to make only once.
#25
  Re: RE: Beware of MattyLims by iclark ([quote='Scott W' pid...)
(07-16-2021, 06:39 PM)iclark Wrote: There are WNers who have developed friendships here over the years and, while using F&F for transactions here may dance on the edge of the TOS, it does seem to fit within the "friends" definition. (IMHO (speaking for myself))

I am sure that the back-of-the-truck comparison was not aimed at WNers with 10K or 100K posts.

This was my point.  Maybe I should have expanded in my statement.
"Life is too short for bad tools.".-- Pedder 7/22/11
#26
  Re: RE: Beware of MattyLims by iclark ([quote='theoldfart' ...)
(07-16-2021, 06:51 PM)iclark Wrote: Please do try that.

It would be good to hear an update on what your credit card company does.

Unless PP has changed recently the F&F option requires one to send the funds from their bank account rather than a CC.  I believe that part of the fees which PP charges stems from the CC fees that it incurs.  Now that said PP does tack a little on for their own pocket.  If you send $ from your bank account it's quite the process (if your bank even lets you) to try and attempt to get the funds back.
#27
  Re: Beware of MattyLims by Elijah A. (I purchased an axe h...)
It has become my habit to never pay via F&F (even with people I trust here on WN), just so that PayPal gets the fee they require for the service they provide. Even if the seller requests F&F, I will calculate the fees to the seller based on our agreed price, and send them that much extra so that it's no loss on their end after they pay the fees. It's only like 3% plus $.30 per transaction. I round up to the next dollar. For the stuff I buy, that usually ends up anywhere from $2 to $8 extra. Not too bad... Similar to paying sales tax. Sorry to the OP about having to deal with a dishonest person.  It's a shame this happens.
-Wooden wing builder for custom sport biplanes...
I'm your wingman!!  Big Grin
#28
  Re: Beware of MattyLims by Elijah A. (I purchased an axe h...)
Sorry to hear this happened.  This was the person who tried frauding me earlier and whom I alerted the moderators about.
#29
  Re: Beware of MattyLims by Elijah A. (I purchased an axe h...)
I read PayPal’s terms differently; they say

Sending to a friend and family - used when sending money or a gift card to a friend or family member.

Paying for goods or service -  used when buying an item or service from someone. When you make a purchase, the seller pays a small fee to receive your money. Your payment is covered by our protection policy automatically.

Maybe I’m wrong but I don’t think PayPal intends for people to use their F&F option when purchasing—even when purchasing from a friend.
I’m actually surprised PayPal doesn’t pursue it more aggressively.
Gary

Please don’t quote the trolls.
Liberty, Freedom and Individual Responsibility
Say what you'll do and do what you say.
#30
  Re: RE: Beware of MattyLims by Gary G™ (I read PayPal’s term...)
(07-17-2021, 07:36 PM)Gary G™ Wrote: I read PayPal’s terms differently; they say

Sending to a friend and family - used when sending money or a gift card to a friend or family member.

Paying for goods or service -  used when buying an item or service from someone. When you make a purchase, the seller pays a small fee to receive your money. Your payment is covered by our protection policy automatically.

Maybe I’m wrong but I don’t think PayPal intends for people to use their F&F option when purchasing—even when purchasing from a friend.
I’m actually surprised PayPal doesn’t pursue it more aggressively.

Gary, 

You are absolutely correct.   Everyone who has a PayPal account has agreed to their user agreement (whether they read it or not). The User agreement specifically states you must not use F&F to purchase goods.  

It is the purpose of the transfer, not the relation of the parties which defines the transaction. If my brother is selling a tool, and I transfer funds to purchase it - the transaction does not qualify as friends and family. 

Hopefully it is obvious that this is an academic discussion and not meant to point fingers at fellow members or give anyone the impression that PayPal would aggressively enforce these terms. It's simply a matter of personal morals. If you sign a contract and use the services offered - you should pay the fee. Can you get away with it? Of course, but probability of conviction is not relevant to whether an action is right or wrong.


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