Workbench buy/make/hybrid advice
#21
  Re: Workbench buy/make/hybrid advice by tedrussell ([b]Long intro:[/b] ...)
Woodcraft says that the Sjoberg Elite 1500 is:
Quote:Constructed of European beech, the top thickness is 3-11/32" in the center (4-5/16" skirt), and it comes treated with a premium quality enriching oil.

That is a much thicker top than the 2 different Sjoberg workbenches that I have owned in the past. Those benches were passed along to my nieces. The 3"+ thickness of the 1500 should be enough to use holdfasts. That is a good thing.

The example that you posted from your local source of
Quote:16”tall x 29.5 long x 15. deep "hand crafted farmhouse bench" for $225.
is more of a coffee table than a workbench.

Anyone who would suggest that a 16" tall something could be an adult's workbench would make me very cautious.

You want better vises than what Sjoberg sells. I strongly recommend finding and buying the vises that you will use before having the bench custom built. Reading the installation instructions for the vises will help you avoid some mistakes in the bench build (whether you are doing it yourself or hiring it done).

One of the Sjoberg benches that I had came with a shoulder vise. Some people love them. I am not one of them. It seemed like, every time I wanted to do anything, that vise just got in my way.
"the most important safety feature on any tool is the one between your ears." - Ken Vick

A wish for you all:  May you keep buying green bananas.
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#22
  Re: Workbench buy/make/hybrid advice by tedrussell ([b]Long intro:[/b] ...)
If you read the op's post with more care, you'd know he wasn't suggesting buying a 16" tall table as his bench. He was quoteing the table, and considering to get a price for the kind of bench that he had in mind.

Simon
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#23
  Re: RE: Workbench buy/make/hybrid advice by Handplanesandmore (Do you enjoy buildin...)
(08-15-2021, 07:05 PM)Handplanesandmore Wrote: ....

The initial weight of the bench is less critical if you can add shelves underneath, or if it's to be parked by a wall. I know a guy who has installed bench castors to his bench so he can use it as a feed table when needed.

Simon

Thanks. That's just the insight I was looking for. Somewhere I saw where a guy took a ~1" benchtop from a new bench and glued/screwed some additional sheets of plywood underneath to give it stiffness and weight.

Mine won't be by a wall. I like the idea of adding casters to use it as a feed table.
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#24
  Re: RE: Workbench buy/make/hybrid advice by msweig (A lot of the issues ...)
(08-15-2021, 08:22 PM)msweig Wrote: A lot of the issues with the bench you pointed out isn't the weight itself, more the rigidity/stiffness. And the vices will rack like crazy. But a lot of rigidity will come from really good joints (M&T). You can approximate those using lapped joinery (where you are gluing pieces together to make the M&T joint) but no idea what the local guy is doing.  Something like a Nicholson style bench can get around this to some degree, but that is simply a different kind of option.  

The books I mentioned will go over the pros/cons of each type of workholding.  And if you are currently spending a ton of time playing with how to get something held solid then you are wasting a ton of time/efficiency. Totally correct that a solid bench will help.

Really enjoying the book by Chris Schwarz. The local guy will use M&T for all joints.
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#25
  Re: RE: Workbench buy/make/hybrid advice by Handplanesandmore (If you read the op's...)
(08-17-2021, 01:55 AM)Handplanesandmore Wrote: If you read the op's post with more care, you'd know he wasn't suggesting buying a 16" tall table as his bench. He was quoteing the table, and considering to get a price for the kind of bench that he had in mind.

Simon

Exactly. I'm 6'2". If I was 4'2", a 16" bench would still be JUST a bit too short. :-)
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#26
  Re: Workbench buy/make/hybrid advice by tedrussell ([b]Long intro:[/b] ...)
OP, you’re fortunate to have a local guy to do the top. Enjoy your build !
What the Heck, Give it a Try
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#27
  Re: Workbench buy/make/hybrid advice by tedrussell ([b]Long intro:[/b] ...)
(08-15-2021, 11:01 AM)tedrussell Wrote: Long intro:
I'm not a newbie - I've been making things out of wood for about 50 years, from barns and sheds to little jewelry boxes to all kinds of accessories for my live-in handweaver Smile . I'm also nowhere near a pro. I've always been a cheapie with tools (my table saw is my father in law's 1951 Shopsmith - yep, you read that right). I don't have unlimited space in my basement workshop. 

I decided I'm old enough to starting doing a few things the right way, starting with a real woodworker's bench. I'm still too cheap to buy a $3,500 Lie Nielsen bench, or even a $2,300 Sjoberg Elite 1500, but I've educated myself enough to know what they offer. I have the skills, but not the desire to dedicate a week full time to make a bench myself, so I'm considering a hybrid option:

My plan:
I just found a guy in town who makes hardwood benches (for homeowners, not workshops) for a decent price. (Example: a 16”tall x 29.5 long x 15. deep "hand crafted farmhouse bench" for $225.)

I'm planning to provide him with some specs to make a basic bench about the size and weight of a Sjoberg Elite 1500. I'll then add some vises, dog holes, and a storage shelf underneath. I know one issue is flatness. 

Any other things I should consider?  Am I going down the wrong path here?

Just throwing in my $0.02 that you should build your own. No good reason except that's what you're supposed to do. Frank Klaus said this in a class I took with him. So that's what I did, I built my own. It has plenty of mistakes and things I would like to do differently in hindsight, but I have never regretted building it. I built the LV style that they sell plans for on their website.

The rest of this is all personal preference and doesn't matter if you build or buy, but here is my checklist-
square dog holes in a row
one round dog hole (something I don't have now)
drawers underneath
extra weight in the base (bonus if you incorporate this into the design, something I did not initially do)
best vise you can afford
tool tray (lots of folks disagree with this, but I like having a tray)
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#28
  Re: RE: Workbench buy/make/hybrid advice by ajkoontz ([quote='tedrussell' ...)
(08-17-2021, 03:11 PM)ajkoontz Wrote: Just throwing in my $0.02 that you should build your own. No good reason except that's what you're supposed to do. Frank Klaus said this in a class I took with him. So that's what I did, I built my own. It has plenty of mistakes and things I would like to do differently in hindsight, but I have never regretted building it. I built the LV style that they sell plans for on their website.

The rest of this is all personal preference and doesn't matter if you build or buy, but here is my checklist-
square dog holes in a row
one round dog hole (something I don't have now)
drawers underneath
extra weight in the base (bonus if you incorporate this into the design, something I did not initially do)
best vise you can afford
tool tray (lots of folks disagree with this, but I like having a tray)

The guy down the road won't like it, but you're making a strong argument for making my own, and if I do, I'll refer back to your list - thanks! I'll see after he comes back with a quote. Good news is the price of lumber has come down from insanely high to only crazy high.

I've browsed around enough to see that there are two schools of thought on this. One is yours - "that's what you're supposed to do". The other is that building your own bench is an unnecessary "rite of passage" (the exact words I saw in two different places).
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#29
  Re: RE: Workbench buy/make/hybrid advice by tedrussell ([quote='Handplanesan...)
(08-17-2021, 01:55 AM)Handplanesandmore Wrote: If you read the op's post with more care, you'd know he wasn't suggesting buying a 16" tall table as his bench. He was quoteing the table, and considering to get a price for the kind of bench that he had in mind.

Simon

(08-17-2021, 02:50 PM)tedrussell Wrote: Exactly. I'm 6'2". If I was 4'2", a 16" bench would still be JUST a bit too short. :-)

Perhaps I phrased it poorly. My concern was that, if the guy down the street listed that as a workbench, the guy down the street might not have much experience at fabricating a woodworking bench with a 3" or 4" thick top. It would be a shame if the fabricator's inexperience (if true) lead to using some quarter-sawn 2x4 on edge for the some of the top lamination.

There are definitely 2 schools of thought on dog holes. I understand the advantage of the square dogs if you are only going to have one row of them, use a traditional end vise, and only plane or machine boards with squared-off ends. On the other hand 3/4" round holes have a lot more versatility when using benchstops and holdfasts in the round dog holes. Round dogs are not that much harder to make than square dogs to fill the holes not in use (done to stop screws and other small parts from falling in the holes).
"the most important safety feature on any tool is the one between your ears." - Ken Vick

A wish for you all:  May you keep buying green bananas.
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#30
  Re: RE: Workbench buy/make/hybrid advice by iclark ([quote='Handplanesan...)
Round or square?

Again, a no brainer here: Round.

Not only one can use them with a holdfast, many bench accessories are designed and sold for use with round holes only. They include veritas planing stops, round bushings for mounting lamps, dogs of various kinds, etc. The Gramercy holdfasts are so affordable that at one time I owned three pairs of them (yes, 6) before I sold some away. Anyone who does handwork and uses no holdfasts is missing a lot. Even for people who use power tools, the holdfasts are better than clamps in many situations.

For a similar reason, don't let anyone fool you that 1" dog holes are better than 3/4" holes. They aren't unless you want to spend a lot of money on a 1" dia holdfast with almost zero aftermarket bench accessories to use on those holes.

Simon
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