Face frame for inset doors
#9
Hi,

Making a maple face frame for inset doors. Given that AFIK the clearance between face frame and doors is typically 1/16" accuracy is paramount.
But its not only accuracy in terms of the length of parts and exactly square but also that the wood is straight. My stiles are about 4'.

I have ripped the face frame pieces about 1/2" oversize and I noticed that the kerf closed a bit as i was making the cut thus the cut is no longer straight.
So I assume best practice is to rip oversize then edge joint again and then final rip? Of course wood is fully acclimated.

This for a built-in cabinet that will not have any outer box sides showing. It's being installed in a hole that was originally intended for a tube TV that has pilasters on each side. I was thinking to use pocket screws to attach the face frame but would biscuits be more likely to straighten or maintain straight face frame stiles? I kind of doubt it at 3" wide stiles. Also, I think in my case biscuits might be a bit tricky to locate in the face frame because there will be significant face frame overhangs relative to the plywood case on both sides (for inset Blum hinge mount and obviously cannot make the case flush to the walls).

Thanks for any tips.
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#10
I went ahead and jointed the stiles and checked them against a straightedge and they seem to be perfectly straight. I then ripped to very close to final width, checked that edge and not all are straight - perhaps 1/32 off. Not surprising I suppose but the jointer is king of straight at least on my equipment.

I have been a serious woodworker for 10 years now, never done an inset door though. Where I live about all I can get in hardwood is surfaced 2 sides and 1 side straight (13/16 thick).
So my usual procedure is to joint the straight edge, then rip a bit wider than final with jointed edge against fence of course. I then flip the piece so ripped edge against fence and rip to final dimension. Is this how most people do it or do they leave the jointed edge? I suppose I habitually ripped off the jointed edge because initially I had a hard time setting the knives but I have since used the glass + magnet method and jointed edge looks good.
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#11
Building inset drawer fronts is always tricky but to me they look the best and it's worth the work. My jointer is set to take off exactly 1/32" in each pass. I joint one edge, place it against the fence, rip close to the final dimension and then joint the sawn edge to fit. If you have a sharp blade on your tablesaw you might get a good enough finished edge to work with.

You can also use a handplane if you like or clean up the edge with a sanding block.

Good luck,

Doug
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#12
Wood often gets a crook in it when you rip pieces from a wide board, so it's always best to cut a little oversize, let it sit a few hours or overnight, then re-joint and rip again.  

Typical reveals around inset doors and drawers are 3/32" - a nickel.  If you have any drawers, their seasonal expansion and the RH while you're building the cabinet will be the deciding factor in how large the gap needs to be.  The old adage, build tight in the Summer, loose in the Winter is quoted for good reason. 

How you attach the FF to the cabinet is largely a matter of personal preference.  Pocket screws, biscuits, splines, rabbets, and nothing but glue and brads all work.  I often use Norm's method with biscuits.  You route a groove in the cabinet edge with a biscuit slotting bit, and cut biscuit slots in the back of the faceframe.  With FF's that sit flush with the inside edge of the cabinet sides, as you would do if using Euro hinges, you route the slot in the cabinet sides first, then adjust your biscuit cutter so that the blade fits into the groove, then make your cuts in the back of the faceframe at that setting.  Pretty simple and foolproof.  If your FF overhangs the inside edge of the cabinet you just add a spacer equal to that overhang when setting the position of the fence on the biscuit cutter.  Once set, remove the spacer and make the cuts in the back of the FF.  

John
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#13
I was also wondering for double inset doors, is there typically a vertical divider as part of the face frame or does it just depend? Seems that it's bit cleaner look w/o.

I'm planning to use this built in as liquor cabinet with tempered glass shelves, span will be about 40", no problem with wood shelves + hardwood trim on front but a bit of a push for glass although it's just a matter of going thick enough. I'll probably also add shelf support holes in the back so I can have at least 5 points of support. There are calculators to check span vs glass thickness and weight. With the front frame divider I could have another shelf support and then effective span is cut in half. I looked at a china cabinet we have and it has multiple supports on the long edge and gets away with surprisingly thin glass.

For the door stops, I searched this extensively and most common method is the rubber bumper on bottom. However, if I do decide to go glass shelves I would probably put a glass shelf on the bottom to protect the cabinet base with some rubber feet underneath and this could be the stop if I can place it such that the door hits it just right. Apparently some high end cabinet makers add a 3/4 ply to the bottom of the case to act as a door stop to avoid any obstructions on the base.
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#14
You need a door stop, one way or the other. 

Yes, there are glass span calculators you can use to determine the safe loading for any span of interest.  Obviously the thickness of the glass has a large bearing on the maximum allowable span, but so does annealed vs. tempered glass.  Tempered glass can support 4X the load of annealed glass.  Tempered glass 3/8" thick, 12" deep and 40" wide could support 106 lbs of evenly distributed weight.  You could put about 30 liquor bottles on a 12" x 40" shelf.  At 3.5 lbs / bottle you'd have 105 lbs, which I'd call unsafe.  With 1/2" tempered glass you'd be fine.  Alternatively, add support at midspan and you'd be fine with 1/4" tempered glass.  

John
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#15
Fastcap makes adjustable stops for inset doors.  They have the mounting hole off-center so you can rotate the stop to fine-tune it.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WEEP7r-0Miw
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#16
(10-25-2021, 01:25 PM)alexh1 Wrote: I was also wondering for double inset doors, is there typically a vertical divider as part of the face frame or does it just depend? Seems that it's bit cleaner look w/o.
Personally I avoid middle dividers as much as possible. I think it detracts from the appearance, gets in the way, and it just another space to work out.

I prefer astragals (where the doors overlap in a rabbet). One of the stiles needs to be wider by that width of the rabbet. Another option is to simply add a strip to the inside of one door.

In addition, you can put a rabbet in the top and bottom horizontal (rails) as a stop.

You'll need some type of latch to hold the door closed whichever way you go. The spring loaded ball bearing catches are pretty slick, but magnets and mechanical latches are an option.
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