Veritas 2” Plane Iron
#10
  
I’m putting together an assortment of 2” cutting irons just to test them out and see what the differences are, given the woods I primarily work with and the sharpening methods I use. My goal is to have the most suitable steel in each plane for roughing, flattening and smoothing, and also to learn a little along the way. 

I recently came across a NOS 2” Veritas iron in A2 that says it was made in the USA. My knowledge of woodworking hand tools is fairly limited but I thought Veritas tools were made in Canada by Lee Valley. 

Does anyone know which company in the USA would have made this iron and if it’s the same or similar to ones made by other well known companies like Lie-Nielsen or Hock Tools? Were there (potentially) problems with this arrangement, which led to Lee Valley developing PMV-11? Any insight is much appreciated. 

Regards,
Justin

   
   
   
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#11
  Re: Veritas 2” Plane Iron by Mainelywoodworking (I’m putting together...)
Hi Justin - 

That a really old blade  -probably goes back 25 years or so. Pretty sure it would not be the same source as Hock or LN - though the name of the particular subcontractor fails me...

Our goal is to make as many tools we can directly - and what we can't make ourselves, we sub-contract in North America (same for components). Eventually, we bring as much sub-contracted work back in-house, once we establish a regular demand, and can make the capital investment to support internal production. We don't do casting, painting, anodizing, or forging though.

The development of PM-V11 was independent of blade manufacturing.

Hope all that helps!

Cheers - 

Rob
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#12
  Re: RE: Veritas 2” Plane Iron by Rob Lee (Hi Justin -  That...)
(11-08-2021, 02:28 PM)Rob Lee Wrote: Hi Justin - 

That a really old blade  -probably goes back 25 years or so. Pretty sure it would not be the same source as Hock or LN - though the name of the particular subcontractor fails me...

Our goal is to make as many tools we can directly - and what we can't make ourselves, we sub-contract in North America (same for components). Eventually, we bring as much sub-contracted work back in-house, once we establish a regular demand, and can make the capital investment to support internal production. We don't do casting, painting, anodizing, or forging though.

The development of PM-V11 was independent of blade manufacturing.

Hope all that helps!

Cheers - 

Rob
Thanks for the response Rob! I think I’ll try a PM-V11 blade the next time I ‘need’ a replacement. If not for the pursuit of the perfect blade steel, why was it developed? Chisels? 

Regards,
Justin
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#13
  Re: RE: Veritas 2” Plane Iron by Mainelywoodworking ([quote="Rob Lee" pid...)
(11-10-2021, 06:08 PM)Mainelywoodworking Wrote: Thanks for the response Rob! I think I’ll try a PM-V11 blade the next time I ‘need’ a replacement. If not for the pursuit of the perfect blade steel, why was it developed? Chisels? 

Regards,
Justin

Well now - that would really be a peek behind the curtain.....

I don't believe in a "Perfect" steel - I think there are good choices for everyone, and they're not always the same steel. Personally - I like O1, as it suits my workflow, and sharpening regimen. A2 was an ideal steel from a manufacturing standpoint - dimensionally stable after hardening, and takes a good edge, and holds it longer. 

When we first considered making chisels - we recognized that the majority of the cost of what we produce is machine time, labor, and burden. We wanted to ensure we we offering something additional on the material side - and were cognizant of the benefits of powdered metallurgy steels. At that time, there had already been some dabbling in CPM-3V and CPM-9V, primarily by turners and knife makers. There was clearly some advantages to higher Vanadium content in a PM steel. We started an extensive project to find a formulation that hit a "sweet spot" in term of performance - sharpenabilty, durabilty, manufacturability, and affordability. We spent about $250K in testing and evaluation.... and came up with PM-V11.

Aside - many know that the name is a "Spinal Tap" reference....PM for powdered Metal, V for Veritas, and "11".... well, because this steel goes to 11......

I would also credit discussions with Karl Holtey over many years with influencing our desire to find the best material possible for what we wanted to make, how we wanted to make it, and who we wanted to make it for. Karl is uncompromising in his pursuit of doing things the right way. 

Cheers - 

Rob
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#14
  Re: RE: Veritas 2” Plane Iron by Rob Lee ([quote="Mainelywoodw...)
Rob,  I am not an expert by any stretch, but IMO, PM-V11 is a "perfect" steel for bench chisels.   While I have a few plane blades that are PM-V11, for me at least, the improvement in durability is easier to see in bench chisels.   They may last a lot longer in a plane, but it is not something that I track .
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#15
  Re: Veritas 2” Plane Iron by Mainelywoodworking (I’m putting together...)
Thank you very much for that information. I haven’t had a chance to try out the LAJ that I got with a PM-V11 blade at the Seconds Sale but it makes sense with regards to bench chisels now. Much appreciated. It does however make watching those bench chisels in my cart vanish, right before my very own eyes, that much more bitter. 

I too am no expert when it comes to steels, but simply noticed that I really liked the glass-like finish I was getting from an old (25+ years) LN Bronze no. 4 with what I’ve since learned is a W1 blade. Made me wonder if there were other equally perfect blade-plane-task combinations that I was missing. Similar experience with the Ray Isles mortise chisels that I like using, that just chop and chop and chop and without too much shock in the hand or chipping at the edge, and have found out that those have D2 steel. 

Sounds like PM-V11 is where it’s at for bench chisels!

Is it Black Friday yet???
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#16
  Re: RE: Veritas 2” Plane Iron by Mainelywoodworking (Thank you very much ...)
100% agree on the D2 for the Ray Isles mortice chisel -  it just keeps on trucking.
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#17
  Re: Veritas 2” Plane Iron by Mainelywoodworking (I’m putting together...)
(11-06-2021, 01:45 PM)Mainelywoodworking Wrote: I’m putting together an assortment of 2” cutting irons just to test them out and see what the differences are, given the woods I primarily work with and the sharpening methods I use. My goal is to have the most suitable steel in each plane for roughing, flattening and smoothing, and also to learn a little along the way. 

I recently came across a NOS 2” Veritas iron in A2 that says it was made in the USA. My knowledge of woodworking hand tools is fairly limited but I thought Veritas tools were made in Canada by Lee Valley. 

Does anyone know which company in the USA would have made this iron and if it’s the same or similar to ones made by other well known companies like Lie-Nielsen or Hock Tools? Were there (potentially) problems with this arrangement, which led to Lee Valley developing PMV-11? Any insight is much appreciated. 

Regards,
Justin

Would love to read all of the package insert that came with the iron.  Any chance you could unfold and snap a picture?

TIA
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#18
  Re: RE: Veritas 2” Plane Iron by barryvabeach (100% agree on the D2...)
(11-11-2021, 06:58 AM)barryvabeach Wrote: 100% agree on the D2 for the Ray Isles mortice chisel -  it just keeps on trucking.

D2 is the only steel I've ever found to be profoundly different from others.  In the end I didn't care for it, but if I had a piecework job chopping mortises all day I'd use it in a heartbeat -- would obviously have to jump into a time machine for that to happen.

Everything else -- A2, O1, old Record, new Record, Stanley of various vintages -- all just shades of subtlety and not in any way Earth shatteringly different IMO.
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