Which hand planes to keep?
#21
  Re: RE: Which hand planes to keep? by CStan (Keep an extra iron o...)
(01-04-2022, 12:41 PM)CStan Wrote: I've seen the shop shots with four smoothers, three jacks, three jointers and all of that rot.  I think it looks stupid.  It is stupid.

And perhaps on the wall of a shop (youtube) that shows building projects with power tools and gadgets 99% of the time!

Simon
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#22
  Re: Which hand planes to keep? by OneStaple (Hey all, This cou...)
Warren and Adam,

One of the questions brought up in the OP was blade configuration. I really would love to hear some input on this. I keep a slight camber on my Stanley #7. I find that it is easier to square up an edge when I can shift the plane as necessary to take off more material from either side. I have never had issues with glue-ups, but some folks seem to think that a cambered jointer blade will result in ruined edge joints. What are your thoughts on this from a traditional/historic/experience point of view?
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#23
  Re: RE: Which hand planes to keep? by Handplanesandmore ([quote="CStan" pid="...)
(01-04-2022, 12:48 PM)Handplanesandmore Wrote: And perhaps on the wall of a shop (youtube) that shows building projects with power tools and gadgets 99% of the time!

Simon

Strewn all over the shop or in a solid walnut 8' tall tool cabinet that would make Chippendale's heart skip a beat: still stupid.

But, yes, that's the absolute worst -- a sea of power equipment to go along with enough hand tools to outfit three or four 18th century fine cabinetmakers. While I'm not suggesting self-deprivation, there's always been an element of craftsmanship to me that implied getting a lot out of a little, or at least getting a lot out of less. The converse is like pornography, you know it when you see it.
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#24
  Re: Which hand planes to keep? by OneStaple (Hey all, This cou...)
More of a case of what one wants in THEIR shop.......and what room in the shop one has....and what budget the shop has..

We all can't be Roy Underhills, anymore than Norm Abram, or David Marks....or even Scott Phillips, for that matter. 

Keep a record of what planes you USE on each project.....you will notice a pattern.   But...some Projects will take one type of plane, others will need something larger, or smaller. 

Surprised that certain posters on here haven't said.."Just sell off all that junk, use the money and buy all new stuff from my sponsors (insert Brand Name here)....

The only right way is to make a note of what planes YOU use the most often, have those as the ready use group.   Find out for yourself what the shop uses and feels good in YOUR hands....

I do have a few "Collectables" that can sit on a shelf in the til....there is also a shelf under the bench for the ready-use planes.   IF in the middle of a project, I might notice a plane seeming to be getting a bit dull....I can merely reach into the til, pull out a sharper version and back to work much faster than hunting down a sharp iron, and changing irons...dull plane goes into the til...until I am between projects..THEN I can sharpen the dull ones.  There is a rotation in my shop...one project might use Stanleys, the next might use Millers Falls....some will even see the Wood River #62..IF needed....

I MIGHT use #3 sized planes for one job, including the #5-1/4.....another job I might use the #4 T-11s, or the Millers Falls #9s......Been using the #5-1/2 size lately, and sometimes the #6 size planes...all depends on the size of the wood being worked over...size the plane to the work.   All very well to tell someone that they NEED a No. 7 or No. 8, but when the LONGEST board they will ever see is 16" long? Or, 4-6" wide?


Sometimes, one can't have a "pure" woodshop....of either 100% hand tools, OR 100% Power tools...and unless one is a SNOB about it...that is alright, as there is a third option...called a Hybrid Shop.   A blend of both hand and power tools, as space and budget allow.  Not a bloody thing wrong with that.   it is, all said and done, YOUR shop.

Yes, I do have a lot of planes, and lot of drills and a lot of saws....one hobby uses the tools, another Hobby collects and restores old tools....and, they do tend to get along with each other quite nicely. 

Biggest thing, is to put the tools to work, that was what they were made for, in the first place.   How would you like it, if someone sat YOU on a shelf..to be stared at and just gather rust and dust...taken out on Old Fool's Day to be spiffed up, shown off, and then back on a shelf....Of course, some MIGHT call that "Retirement".....I have better things to do, and so do my tools. 

Make that list, let us know which tools work the best for YOU, feel the best in YOUR hands.   And which just sit around getting dusty on a shelf.   I have 5 Stanley #5s, each with a slightly different edge profile....same with the 4 Millers Falls No. 14s...so I can use the plane best suited to the job, is all.....and NO..one plane can NOT "do it all" despite all that hype going around the "sales floor"....
Show me a picture, I'll build a project from that
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#25
  Re: RE: Which hand planes to keep? by bandit571 (More of a case of wh...)
The concept of purity is a direct enemy of productivity and quality and versatility. 
I use machines when I can but keep an extensive set of hand tools for all those jobs that no machine can do efficiently or maybe not at all.

The bench planes I think you should keep are:

-1 number 3 sized smoother. Very useful for wooden boat repairs and other repair work when you plane in awkward positions.
-1 number 4 sized smoother. General purpose smoother.
-3 number 5 sized jack planes. One with a slightly cambered iron for roughing and one with a straight iron for small jointing jobs and one for rough carpentry in knotty spruce which dulls the blade instantly.
-Maybe 1 number 6 but you can easily make do without it. It is a small jointer after all but is comes in handy with repairwork at times. Optional.
-1 number 7 sized jointer. General purpose jointer plane.
-Maybe a number 8 for jointing long stock but it is optional.
-1 scrub plane

You should also keep the two rabbet planes and the block plane.

The internet is full of self proclaimed prophets who say that you only need this and this and this electric gadget to become a full fledged craftsman. Nothing they say is true of cause.
A full fledged craftsman needs a versatile set of tools. As little gadgetry as possible. Only plain good tools capable of doing a good job. The rest comes with training. Hwever few human beings are persistant and talented enough to become a full fledged craftsman without proper tools.
Part timer living on the western coast of Finland. Not a native speaker of English
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#26
  Re: Which hand planes to keep? by OneStaple (Hey all, This cou...)
A bad worker will blame his tools....and a good worker just rolls up his sleeves, and gets to work. 

Which would one rather have....the full catalog of the newest toys (tools) or...the same amount in cash to buy the materials for the tools to work on.   One or the other.

Some days...it is not about the tool.....but, more about the skill of the person that is using that tool.  


There was a fellow 20 years ago...that claimed one can NOT be considered a woodworker without spending at LEAST $15-25,000 on the tools and shop...otherwise, they were just a common wood butcher....hmmmm, yeah....
Show me a picture, I'll build a project from that
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#27
  Re: RE: Which hand planes to keep? by bandit571 (A bad worker will bl...)
(01-04-2022, 04:23 PM)bandit571 Wrote: Some days...it is not about the tool.....but, more about the skill of the person that is using that tool.  

Rob C. ---- You'll need shiny, new planes (previously the Lie-Nielsen when he was selling for LN) like the WR. Plus many of the gadgets he sells  (tape, knife and training wheel for sharpening!!!)

Paul S. ---- No, the vintage Stanleys are great.

Then the folks who insist on wooden planes..... and the folks who advocate planes that use pull strokes.

Why woodworking is so confusing!
Laugh
Winkgrin

Simon
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#28
  Re: RE: Which hand planes to keep? by Handplanesandmore ([quote="bandit571" p...)
Tyler,

That seems like a lot of planes! I went through a similar thing last year. I probably bought and sold around 40 planes alone; LNs, Stanley’s, Veritas and a Union. 

The first thing I did was to decide what I was keeping to collect, (nice-to-own planes that might mean something to you but you don’t care if you use them or not) and planes that you are going to use

Of the users, I cleaned and sharpened every single one of them, and then used them. I quickly weeded out the planes I didn’t care to use and therefore keep. 

Then of all the planes I liked using, if there were multiples, I tried them back to back in their various tasks, roughing, trying, smoothing, etc., and decided which ones gave the best results in my hands, then got rid of the extras. 

This might be a good place to start because what you’re left with is a few planes that you care to collect, and a bunch of users that you like using and give you good results, and nothing else.
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#29
  Re: Which hand planes to keep? by OneStaple (Hey all, This cou...)
Thanks to all for the responses and thoughts. It's taken me a while to absorb all of it and respond here, but I've been reading them as they come in.

For one, there are a few surprises (to me) on this thread. I'm a little surprised that no one is advocating for owning 100+ planes and/or all the latest and greatest by LN/Veritas/whomever (I certainly respect those makers). There seems to be a general consensus that a few key planes can handle almost everything (of course, minus some tasks really geared toward specialized planes).

Secondly, I'm surprised by the support for the wood-bodied planes. I know some people like them, but I always considered that to be a significant minority.

Most of what I have was picked up at various sales or can't-pass-up opportunities. Over the past 15 years, that has turned into a lot of planes, some of which I've never actually used because they're missing a screw or need to tote fixed or some other minor repair. I think the first message that I received here is that I can safely get rid of some of the duplicates (for example, I don't need five #5s). Then, I can play with what's left and figure out which ones I really want/need to keep for the long run, eventually ending up with something like 3-8 planes. I don't need to slim this down to the bare minimum, but I also don't want to have unused tools just collecting dust. And I've had them all nicely displayed in our dining room for years (I consider it an accomplishment that I convinced my wife to allow that, but she thinks they look cool), but my wife wants to reclaim some space.

I should mention that I have another block plane (Stanley, but I forget the number) that didn't make the list that I use for small things, but I've never really felt like it has ever cut like I'd like it to. If I were to sell some other planes, I'd be tempted to pick up something like a Veritas DX60 (a bit of a splurge relative to my other planes, I know).

Also, to be clear, I would not consider any of these collectors and I have no desire to keep any as such. I expect any that I keep to be users. So value of the planes isn't really a question for this discussion (I can figure that out for any I decide to sell).

Given that I have the #3 that I've converted to a scrub as well as the wooden scrub, is there any benefit to having an actual scrub plane (e.g., Stanley #40)? My impression is no.

Touching on the concept of different blade profiles, is it better to just have a few blades that I can swap in and out of a given size plane, such as so I can use a #7 both as a try plane and a jointer? Or just dedicate one #7 to each job (if that's the plane I select for that job)? I'd lean toward the latter, given that I already have these in hand and it's not a question of having to go buy another one.

As for what I'm doing with these, I plan to use them where necessary, and/or when I just want to have some fun with hand tools instead of power tools. Realistically, I'll still rely on tailed tools if I'm making a piece of furniture, but there are some things, like flattening the top of a coffee or kitchen table, that powered tools struggle to do unless you have access to BIG ones. I have a natural edge walnut coffee table that I'm about to work on for my sister that could be a perfect candidate for doing more with planes and figuring out which ones I like or don't like. So, to Bandit's point, I expect to work with boards now and in the future that are large enough to warrant a #7 or #8 (I have a 3"x40"x11' slab of walnut that I can't wait to play with!).

It sounds like I need to just go plane some wood to figure out what I like and perhaps dedicate a project to just that endeavor. Perhaps one reason that I haven't done this yet (or just another excuse) is that building a Roubo bench has been on my to-do list for about 10 years. That would make working with these a little easier.

Thanks again for all the thoughts. This has been very helpful to me!

Tyler
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#30
  Re: RE: Which hand planes to keep? by OneStaple (Thanks to all for th...)
(01-07-2022, 05:20 PM)OneStaple Wrote: Touching on the concept of different blade profiles, is it better to just have a few blades that I can swap in and out of a given size plane, such as so I can use a #7 both as a try plane and a jointer? Or just dedicate one #7 to each job (if that's the plane I select for that job)? I'd lean toward the latter, given that I already have these in hand and it's not a question of having to go buy another one.

Tyler

It's a good idea to keep a different blade in a copy plane..........up to a limit. Some people have two table saws, one dedicated for cross cuts or dado cuts, or more than one miter saws, and several routers for a good reason. But for a hobbyist, don't over do it.

As I said, my interest lies in seeing a good tool utilized (in my hands or someone else's). I do have two sets of chisels, one for paring and one for chopping. A few mostly used chisels have more than one number so I don't need to stop in the middle of a job to rehone the only chisel. In general, I go slim but without scarifying efficiency. You can define what "slim" means for you.

Simon
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