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01-24-2022, 03:43 PM
(This post was last modified: 01-24-2022, 03:46 PM by nkarasev.)
Hi,
I am not a pro, just doing DIY at home and have used Titebond III (ultimate one) with success for some non-essential joinery.
But I noticed when I need to join two boards edge to edge and used that glue, not always I can squeeze the glue out so the seam is almost not visible. It ends up being about 1/32 of inch or 1/64 of inch in visible brown like seam - not very good for for finer projects like furniture. I feel that it is partially because the glue starts to set before I am able to apply coat to all surfaces in time (about few minutes).
So what is a more appropriate glue? No need to be fast setting, rather slower is better to give more time for large amount of surface to glue at a time.
What else I maybe doing wrong? I do use bessey parallel clamps in combination with regular ones.
I need to mention that boards are perfectly joined on jointer, so they are square flat to one another.
Thanks
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Don't assume the jointed edges are perfectly square. Measure them with a known square.
I don't glue off my jointer because I have trouble setting the fence set perfectly square. I glue off my table saw because I know *that* surface is square.
I use TBIII on fine furniture and have no trouble with glue lines.
Semper fi,
Brad
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Tite bond III is an excellent adhesive with a fairly long open time and for complicated joints a good choice.
End grain will absorb a lot of glue. I paint a thin layer on both edges and give it about a minute to soak in and then add some more glue and clamp.
End grain has a reputation for weak glue joints, but all the failed joints I have seen look like they were glue-starved. The two coats eliminates that issue.
I was a picture framer and all our joints were end grain. A lot of framers puffed out their chests and bragged that they were so good at gluing that they never had squeeze-out. My position is that if there is not squeeze-out you almost certainly have starved the joint of glue.
Hide glue is another choice. Its advantage is that it is easily reversible. For antiques or for something you are planning on re-doing again, hide glue is the glue of choice. An example is a cane seat on a chair. You know that the cane will wear out. You don't want to throw out the chair when it does. So you use hide glue which is reversible and then you can re-cane the seat.
No animals were injured or killed in the production of this post.
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I checked the surfaces, they are square when aligned dry.
When I have two simple boards and use glue fast - no issues. But slightly more complex lines (aligned dry well) and I start seeing some issues.
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(01-24-2022, 04:06 PM)nkarasev Wrote: I checked the surfaces, they are square when aligned dry.
When I have two simple boards and use glue fast - no issues. But slightly more complex lines (aligned dry well) and I start seeing some issues.
If you need more open time try liquid hide glue. But first rethink your glue up approach. If you can't get the glue spread fast enough then maybe using a roller, brush, spreader, or some other aid would help. You've got 7 to minutes with TB III. You can do a lot in that amount of time if you plan it well and work efficiently.
John
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(01-24-2022, 03:43 PM)nkarasev Wrote: I do use bessey parallel clamps in combination with regular ones.
I need to mention that boards are perfectly joined on jointer, so they are square flat to one another.
Thanks
I've got the Bessy Revo clamps also and for solid lumber glue-ups they are about as good as 1/2" pipe clamps.
The PVA glues are viscous and hard to squeeze up. For a professional joint use professional clamps such as Hargrave 640, or Jorgenson 7000/7200 series. These will give the best results. Whenever I do a glue up with lots of joints, I'll romp down on the handles the best that I can. When time comes to loosen the clamps, I always notice that unclamping takes less torque on the handle.
The orange one on the left is a Jorgenson 7000 series. All are I-beam bar clamps. Way stronger than 3/4" pipe clamps.
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Are you sure your jointer is giving you a square joint? Like others have mentioned, check that first. Don't assume that a square joint will remain square when clamped up. How are you clamping your joints? A square joint in a dry fit can easily get out of square with uneven clamping pressure. You need to check square during clamp-up to ensure the glue sets to maintain square. There are many clamping aids that can be used during clamping to ensure corners are square. You can even make your own. It's not cheating if you use such aids.
If you believe it's glue-related, check the expiration date of the glue. Tite-Bond generally only has a shelf life of 1-2 years. Past its shelf life, it will start to set up too quickly or not at all. In that case, fresh glue helps maintain the open time for assembly.
Still Learning,
Allan Hill
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90 deg is best but not actually necessary for gluing up a flat panel. All that's needed is that the two mating edges have complimentary angles. I run one piece of mating parts with the show face against the jointer fence and the other with the show face on the outside. Then it doesn't matter if the fence is exactly 90 degrees (which is never completely possible anyway) or off by a little bit.
I think Bob's onto the real problem. Dinky clamps are worse than useless for gluing up flat panels with TB glues. An article in FWW several years ago showed you need a stout bar clamp about every 8 or 9 inches to affect the correct amount of pressure on the edge of 4/4 stock. Obviously, you need to start with well fitted joints, but if you don't have enough clamping pressure the joint won't be invisible.
Liquid hide glue might be a better choice if only light duty clamps are available. I'm not sure, but it spreads thinner, more easily, than TB.
John
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Titebond makes a slow set glue called Titebond Extend for complex glue-ups that require a lot of time. Here's a link to Titebond Extend on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=titebond+exte...doa-p_1_15
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(01-25-2022, 11:28 AM)Hank Knight Wrote: Titebond makes a slow set glue called Titebond Extend for complex glue-ups that require a lot of time. Here's a link to Titebond Extend on Amazon:
https://www.amazon.com/s?k=titebond+exte...doa-p_1_15
There's always the alternative of DAP plastic resin glue. Its more watery than the PVA (titebond, etc) and is very slow setting. Its also an annoyance to mix and fool around with, but clearly worth the hassle. It has to stay under clamp pressure for at least 24 hours.
