kitchen drawer design - options and considerations

[mound]

So for my kitchen project, the carcass work is all planned out and underway..  All base cabinet storage is drawers, some quite deep (er, "tall" as it were) to store large pots/crock-pots etc. based on planning out for the things we have and want to store.  

I'm planning on using solid 1/2" maple, dovetailed, for all boxes with 1/2" maple plywood for the bottoms.  

My question here is two-fold. 

For the very deep drawers, must I make the sides nearly as tall as the front? Consider this example where the F&P false-front is nearly 14" tall:

   

   

For the purpose of holding a large pot and drawing it in and out, surely the short-sides is equally functional. But is it odd looking or in need of additional support behind the large drawer front? 

This leads to the 2nd question and that's about the gap between the panel, and the box. If I were to be making these panels out of solid wood, I'd use 3/4" material, rabbeted so it fits in the groove but remains flush with the back.  However for this whole kitchen worth of cabinets I'm not making solid wood panels. I'm using 1/4" MDF veneered on both sides with 1/16" riftsawn white oak veneer.  This brings the total panel thickness to 3/8".  If the panel is contained within the rails/stiles in a traditional way, I'd be left with a 3/16" gap between the box and the panel, which I think would be undesirable, especially if the box itself isn't tall enough to hide the whole thing:

   

Which makes me think, perhaps a non-traditional approach to F&P construction, whereby the rails and stiles are joined with M&T as normal, but instead of a centered groove encapsulating the floating panel, I could instead rabbet the rails and stiles and then glue the 3/8" veneered panel into place, flush with the back of the rails and stiles:

   

   

The added benefit here, visually, is that I get a 3/8" reveal on the front rather than only 3/16" which I think might look nicer:

   

But it seems very untraditional and like it's cheating or poor workmanship (even though probably nobody will ever look at this detail!)


Thoughts? 

Thanks!

[rwe2156]

When we had pullouts before the remodel, I made them with lower sides and never had an issue.

When I did the new drawers, I made the sides full height b/c they will support the drawer front.

On raised panel drawers, I used 3/8" MDF for the panel and sanded the back flush. You can also add a filler.

I thought about dovetails and the more I thought about them the less I wanted to do them for a few reasons:
1. Aggravating in plywood
2. Not necessary for a structurally sound drawer
3. A LOT of work for little return other than looks
4. Hey, it's a kitchen (IOW personal taste).

That said, much of the general public equates dovetail drawers with quality cabinets, but nothing could be further from the truth!

Oooo, look Honey - dovetail drawers!

In the end, you'll never even think about them when using your kitchen. I ended up going with rabbets, trim head screws, glue and filler. Invisible in the maple. You can also use dowels or plug the screw holes.

[jteneyck]

How deep you make the drawer boxes is up to you.  If you make them full depth, like the drawer front, you get maximum flexibility in what can be stored.  Functionally, a shallow drawer is fine, until you want to stack up stuff that ends up higher than the sides of the box and stuff starts falling out.  That will never happen with a full depth box.  On the other hand, for access to things like cleaning supplies, which would never be stacked on top of each other, a shallow box offers easy visual identification and physical access.  Only you know what will work best.  

That rabbeted approach you showed will cause you more heartache than benefit.  Fitting those panels precisely will be a pain.  I'd much rather see a 3/16" gap with the traditional panel in frame approach than tearout and non-uniform gaps around a rabbeted panel, plus it just doesn't look right.  Why not start with a piece of 3/8" MDF, veneer that on both sides with your 1/16" veneer, to yield a 1/2" thick panel.  Then rabbet the panel on the back side dso that when you capture it in the frame the back is flush with the back of the frame.  That will give you a solid back and a 1/4" set back on the front, assuming your frame is 3/4" thick.  

John

[mound]

Thanks guys, good points.

re: Dovetails, true, and I may still change my mind.. It's more about having that little bit of enjoyable hand-tool work.. We'll see.

John you're probably right, and yes I agree it looks weird. I did think about using thicker MDF, unfortunately sourcing materials in desired thicknesses has been very difficult. I even had to search around to find 1/4" MDF.

[mound]

Although, John, your idea I think still works even with a 3/8" panel, given that in my OP I pointed out that I like the "Added benefit" of getting a 3/8" reveal on the front. Drawback here is that the groove isn't centered in the rail/stile, that 1/8" might not be beefy enough:

   

[jteneyck]

Although, John, your idea I think still works even with a 3/8" panel, given that in my OP I pointed out that I like the "Added benefit" of getting a 3/8" reveal on the front. Drawback here is that the groove isn't centered in the rail/stile, that 1/8" might not be beefy enough:

If you are using an MDF (or plywood) panel you can glue it into the frame.  That will make the assembly more than strong enough with just the 1/8" "cheek" on the backside of the frame.  

John

[mound]

If you are using an MDF (or plywood) panel you can glue it into the frame.  That will make the assembly more than strong enough with just the 1/8" "cheek" on the backside of the frame.  

John

This is true! Thanks!