Kitchen Cabinet Paint
#21
(02-20-2022, 11:00 PM)Cabinet Monkey Wrote: While a high degree of “skill” may not be needed , a real attention to detail and effort is needed. And while you can roll Advance on , the best jobs are achieved by spraying.  Which requires more prep and equipment most homeowners don’t have lying around.  



All kitchens (finishes) don’t require refinishing with heavy use and time.  Some are better than others. I’ve been to kitchens we did 25+ years ago where the finish still looks fantastic - high gloss hand rubbed lacquer.  And two families with little kids growing up have lived there. 



Pre cat is not a good on site choice unless the home is unoccupied for a long time.  Even then, it won’t be competitive with an acrylic job.  If it is , you should be very worried about the person you’ve engaged.



Right,   but how good of a painter do you think $2k (or less) is going to buy?  Certainly not one who thoroughly de-greases all the surfaces, sands them  and fixes/fills defects. before priming them.  Then sands the prime coat and re-inspects for defects before the finish coat ?  And you want dust control with that sanding?  
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This is exactly why I said go with the factory job.  It's really easy and quick to see what the finished results are likely to be.   Too many variables with site based finishes and past performance at the Smith residence is not easily translated to the Jones'.  And when your #1 objective is price / saving money - getting a good on site tradesman and a good job are extremely difficult , in not down right impossible.

Bottom line is , I cannot imagine a set of cabinets a big as described for two grand including paying a separate contractor for onsite finishing?    I simply don't think that's even possible given the price of materials and minimum wage today.

I wasn't clear but The 4K is for paint only. The cabinets are being made by a life long friend who has a production shop & He doesn't do any type finishing in His shop. He also recommends the shop finish but has had contractors who have done site finishing with good results. His finisher quoted the 4K.
I got a ball park quote from painter who said 2K should cover it if prep is what He calls minimal.
My friend who's making the cabinets hasn't giving me a price yet, we just changed materiel from a Schenk laminate https://schenk.co/product/natural-halifax-oak/ to paint grade, the cost for cabinets using the Schenk was 10K
I'm thinking the paint grade cabinets are gonna be about 6K to 8K. My friend like to mess with me & knows that me not having a firm price bugs the crap out me so he's going to make sweat it out !
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#22
(02-19-2022, 11:24 AM)2link2 Wrote: I'm trying to figure out best way to go money wise on painting my new kitchen cabinets. I can get them shop painted (I think they use conversion varnish) and have fantastic looking cabinets costing aprx. 4K. Or I can have them painted after install by a pro for about 2K using an alkyd water based paint made for cabinetry like this. https://www.benjaminmoore.com/en-us/inte...rior-paint
My question is has anyone had experience with this paint or know of another product that may be better ?
Thanks

I had excellent experience with Valspar Cabinet and Furniture paint available at Lowes. According to the label it is latex, enriched with oil...
Granted I did everyting in a horizontal plane, not sure if the vertical would introduce runs...
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#23
(02-21-2022, 09:46 AM)2link2 Wrote: I wasn't clear but The 4K is for paint only. 

I got a ball park quote from painter who said 2K should cover it if prep is what He calls minimal.
My friend who's making the cabinets hasn't giving me a price yet. 

I'm thinking the paint grade cabinets are gonna be about 6K to 8K. My friend like to mess with me & knows that me not having a firm price bugs the crap out me so he's going to make sweat it out !

layers of the onion are being peeled away. 

On-site prep should be “minimal”  - except for removing all the doors + hinges and drawer fronts , labeling them , masking off the frames / insides of the cabinets , and protecting all the other finished surfaces from overspray. 

Then reinstalling all the hinges and fronts in the correct places.   2 grand sounds awfully lite for a job of even average size , especially if you want high quality paint.
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#24
Just an update and a question on a product & manufacture I've never heard of. The Painter who's doing the job uses this, https://www.gemini-coatings.com/evo/
I'm wondering if anybody here has used it or know anything about it is so I'd like to hear what you think.
The shop painting was ball park quoted at 4K after seeing shop drawings the guy now want's 6.8K for the conversion varnish so I'm getting it painted on site for 2.8K with the Gemini Evo paint.
Thanks
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#25
(03-28-2022, 08:55 PM)2link2 Wrote: Just an update and a question on a product & manufacture I've never heard of. The Painter who's doing the job uses this, https://www.gemini-coatings.com/evo/
I'm wondering if anybody here has used it or know anything about it is so I'd like to hear what you think.
The shop painting was ball park quoted at 4K after seeing shop drawings the guy now want's 6.8K for the conversion varnish so I'm getting it painted on site for 2.8K with the Gemini Evo paint.
Thanks

I've never used Gemini but I know their products are well respected by many.  The PDS for EVO says it's KCMA rated, so that's a good indication it will hold up well on kitchen cabinets.  

John
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#26
Gemini is great stuff.  

Light years ahead of any trim paint you’ll get from BenMoore or SherWill.

$3k all in still sounds lite to me but I’d roll the dice if I was selling in two years. After I checked his last two,jobs in person.
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#27
(03-29-2022, 04:47 PM)Cabinet Monkey Wrote: Gemini is great stuff.  

Light years ahead of any trim paint you’ll get from BenMoore or SherWill.

$3k all in still sounds lite to me but I’d roll the dice if I was selling in two years. After I checked his last two,jobs in person.
Thanks to everybody for your input.
Yeah defiantly going to check out His past jobs, and has quite a few kitchens He's done. He seems legit has a current contractors license and great attitude, young guy trying to grow His business. I'll post back up with a few pics when it's done.
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#28
I used a Gemini 2k (post cat) varnish on the cabinets at the old house. Been a long time now but it was tough as nails. I doubt it exists anymore with the VOC rules but I'm sure there's some good water born stuff. It's probably easier to work with anyway.
Neil Summers Home Inspections


When it comes to 'lectricity, I'm a pretty good wood turner.

... Grey Mountain 3/2/21

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#29
I have sprayed the Campbell solvent based finishes for a while, the post cat conversion varnish product has amazing durability, a few days after spraying I can run my thumbnail over it hard as I can and I can barely see any mark. The pre cat is good also but it's essentially nitro lacquer with a catalyst added so its prone to cracking on solid wood. I have heard pros say that they see no reason to use pre cat over post cat and I tend to agree. There must be a reason though otherwise they wouldn't sell it. It may be that pros catalyze at least a gallon at a time and its 8hr pot life for post cat vs 120 days for pre cat.

I think the expense of these products is in the equipment and skill needed, almost everyone seems to use a Kremlin assisted air type sprayer and they are expensive and they waste a lot of product in the fluid lines. I use a HVLP gun with pressurized cup and can barely pull it off because it dries so fast its hard to maintain a wet edge.

I have seen a website for a guy in my area that sprays Campbell on installed cabinets. It dries so fast the that the airborne overspray lands as mostly as dust but still must be difficult to control.

I installed a lot of new trim in my house and sprayed it with BM oil based (advance did not exist at the time) and its an amazing looking finish and very hard also. Lots of overspray all of over the house but was able to clean it off easily as it did not bond. The wife did complain that some of the carpeting felt a bit "sticky" but that went away after a few vacuums - lucky for me! I only found that it yellows in no light situations, like if I have a pot on a cabinet under the pot will yellow but re exposing to light restores the original color - it may be because I used an off white, I have been told with something like a pure white its a bad idea. But I agree that its an obsolete finish. If the advance is as hard that's great, it will not have the chemical resistance of a catalyzed finish but that might not be a big deal especially now with people using mostly green cleaners.

I would be reluctant to use any finish on cabinets that is not KCMA approved because a failed finish on cabinets means new cabinets for most people. Knew one guy who had on site refinishing done and literally had to have it done twice because the first crew botched it. I think most of those on site refinishers don't really know what they are doing or can't do a good job for the quoted price.

I have the typical builder maple cabinets, 20 years old and if you clean it with windex aggressively the finish gets very soft and likely even builder cabs are catalyzed finishes.
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#30
(02-19-2022, 07:31 PM)Cabinet Monkey Wrote: 1. 4 grand is cheap for a set of kitchen cabinets.  

2. Conversion Varnish is waaaaaaaaay better than BenMoore Advance.   Which, takes weeks to cure. 

3. Factory / shop finishing is almost always preferable to on site finishing. 

4. Sure there are better products out there , but they are expensive  ($ hundreds per gallon) , have a steep learning curve, and require top notch equipment to apply. 

Take your first option everyday of the week.

yeah , Good options.
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