saw making
(04-09-2022, 02:33 PM)Timberwolf Wrote: .......................
I have long ago bought in to the theory that "it's not ALWAYS WHAT you say but HOW you say it" that matters. That's where the written word fails miserably..like here on the forum..there's no substitute for eyeball to eyeball, verbal communication..a person speaks volumes with his hands, facial expressions, tone of voice, eye contact and other body language.
This is exactly the case with me, many people just don't care for the way I speak and it is more often misinterpreted then not. However if you meet me in person you would see that the same words that you see as being offensively are the same words but they don't tend to sound offensively.

(04-09-2022, 02:33 PM)Timberwolf Wrote: Back to the subject tho...I was wondering if you had ever been to the American Precision Museum in Windsor Vt. I went there a few years ago and could have easily spent the day there..They have the very first Bridgeport Mill..Bridgeport #1, like the day it came off the line!!!! A fascinating place for metalheads, inventors etc.....The building dates back to the early 1800's. Used primarily as an armory in the beginning.

https://americanprecision.org/
No, never have. I have only been to a limited amount of states/cities on the east coast. WV, PA, MA and GA. The 1st 2 were to learn how to build with logs, WV doesn't have an airport for commercial jets, AFAIK. Boston and Atlanta are the only other cities I've been to for conferences I was speaking at for Unix/Linux.

I have been to a boatload of Asian countries, and a couple European countries, but that's it. Most of my travel is around Asia with the most time spent in Japan.

(04-09-2022, 08:14 PM)Derek Cohen Wrote: We may never know the circumstances of those posting. George Wilson, whom you mention, is in my opinion one of the great artists and craftsmen of recent times.
And I don't see it that way, but certainly willing to let you have that view of him. I wasn't the only one that had butt heading with him, Mike Wenzloff was yet another, and I hold quite a bit of respect for Mike. Where me and MIke had taken exception to George is how he claimed to make everything, where there were many craftsmen working under him.

The irony is that because George can't even handle himself online, he resorts to personal attacks, and this is why I will never have anything good to say about him. I have long learned that I don't need those type of braggarts in my life. I know other people that know George personally and have met him more than once, and I've heard he had a poor childhood and his Mother mistreated him. There is irony in this, since I had a very poor childhood, but mostly physical abuse to me, my sisters not so lucky. Because of that I just don't have time in my life for any negativity for someone else's insecurities.

(04-09-2022, 08:14 PM)Derek Cohen Wrote: George also has been in ill health and pain so some years, which is why he no longer posts on forums.
Yes, I do know that, which is another part of his problem. He goes off on people like me after he's had his meds in the past, it's not good. And then he blames the pain. Unfortunately I don't have a tolerance for that.

I'm in no way telling you how to act towards him, it sounds like you have a good relationship with him, I would keep it that way as everyone I know with a bad relationship hates him.

I just hope his illness is not due to karma, cause if it is he's just get more and more pain until he dies.

He had a great deal of machines in his shop, although some Chinesium like he purchased for Williamsburg, yet more red flags...but he never really used them, he did have them, just didn't use them. If he had made the work, you would think he's be busy making more...AFAIK he's been trying to get rid of them as he know now he will never be able to use them.

it was really a slap in their face to even put those tools in any building there, and I have never been to Williamsburg, but now that George is gone for good, I will make it a stop if I get back there. I know very well about the instruments and the one that went to the queen, etc...but I have other real friends that have done work for those types of people, on is a traditional silversmith who went to my high school and married a girl I was friendly with. He made some stuff for the Clintons, which supoosedly went into the White House collection, just not sure if that means it went to Billary's home in AR. But I have no bearing on George's life, and he has no bearing on mine. If anything I don't want people to know I was even an acquaintance of his.

In contrast there's a luthier in the Bay Area. His name is Frank Ford, him and another gent are partners who opened Gryphon Stringed Instruments. He has done so much for the metalworking community, and has been such a big help to me. These are his websites, I feel blessed to have known him. He is also a bit ill, but he keeps going...he did a face plant on hardwood floors and caught a subdural hematoma. When I googled it, it didn't sound good. He is recovering really slowly...this is his luthier articles:

http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/pagelist.html

I've never seen George help anyone for 1/100000th of what Frank has. Frank also donated a Samson lathe to The Tech Shop which he used to teach the local metalworkers on as well as let the Tech Shop use. Now they're gone and so is his lathe.

If that luthier page is not enough, here's his Home Shop Machining page:

(I hope Jack takes a gander at this page)
http://www.frets.com/HomeShopTech/hstpages.html

It's better for me to just try and avoid people like George. I don't question the work from Williamsburg, I only question all of it that George claims was his. Abe Lincoln said it best, "Don't believe everything you read on the Internet". I could go on about how you don't even know who people are if you haven't met them, because I have seen what appears to be women on machinist forums that guys are tripping over themselves to help them and have conversations with, but who are actually Trans Sexuals.
Rolleyes

"Don't believe everything you read on the Internet".
Alan
Geometry was the most critical/useful mathematics class I had, and it didn't even teach me mathematics.
Reply
(04-10-2022, 04:27 AM)TraditionalToolworks Wrote: This is exactly the case with me, many people just don't care for the way I speak and it is more often misinterpreted then not. However if you meet me in person you would see that the same words that you see as being offensively are the same words but they don't tend to sound offensively.

No, never have. I have only been to a limited amount of states/cities on the east coast. WV, PA, MA and GA. The 1st 2 were to learn how to build with logs, WV doesn't have an airport for commercial jets, AFAIK. Boston and Atlanta are the only other cities I've been to for conferences I was speaking at for Unix/Linux.

I have been to a boatload of Asian countries, and a couple European countries, but that's it. Most of my travel is around Asia with the most time spent in Japan.

And I don't see it that way, but certainly willing to let you have that view of him. I wasn't the only one that had butt heading with him, Mike Wenzloff was yet another, and I hold quite a bit of respect for Mike. Where me and MIke had taken exception to George is how he claimed to make everything, where there were many craftsmen working under him.

The irony is that because George can't even handle himself online, he resorts to personal attacks, and this is why I will never have anything good to say about him. I have long learned that I don't need those type of braggarts in my life. I know other people that know George personally and have met him more than once, and I've heard he had a poor childhood and his Mother mistreated him. There is irony in this, since I had a very poor childhood, but mostly physical abuse to me, my sisters not so lucky. Because of that I just don't have time in my life for any negativity for someone else's insecurities.

Yes, I do know that, which is another part of his problem. He goes off on people like me after he's had his meds in the past, it's not good. And then he blames the pain. Unfortunately I don't have a tolerance for that.

I'm in no way telling you how to act towards him, it sounds like you have a good relationship with him, I would keep it that way as everyone I know with a bad relationship hates him.

I just hope his illness is not due to karma, cause if it is he's just get more and more pain until he dies.

He had a great deal of machines in his shop, although some Chinesium like he purchased for Williamsburg, yet more red flags...but he never really used them, he did have them, just didn't use them. If he had made the work, you would think he's be busy making more...AFAIK he's been trying to get rid of them as he know now he will never be able to use them.

it was really a slap in their face to even put those tools in any building there, and I have never been to Williamsburg, but now that George is gone for good, I will make it a stop if I get back there. I know very well about the instruments and the one that went to the queen, etc...but I have other real friends that have done work for those types of people, on is a traditional silversmith who went to my high school and married a girl I was friendly with. He made some stuff for the Clintons, which supoosedly went into the White House collection, just not sure if that means it went to Billary's home in AR. But I have no bearing on George's life, and he has no bearing on mine. If anything I don't want people to know I was even an acquaintance of his.

In contrast there's a luthier in the Bay Area. His name is Frank Ford, him and another gent are partners who opened Gryphon Stringed Instruments. He has done so much for the metalworking community, and has been such a big help to me. These are his websites, I feel blessed to have known him. He is also a bit ill, but he keeps going...he did a face plant on hardwood floors and caught a subdural hematoma. When I googled it, it didn't sound good. He is recovering really slowly...this is his luthier articles:

http://www.frets.com/FretsPages/pagelist.html

I've never seen George help anyone for 1/100000th of what Frank has. Frank also donated a Samson lathe to The Tech Shop which he used to teach the local metalworkers on as well as let the Tech Shop use. Now they're gone and so is his lathe.

If that luthier page is not enough, here's his Home Shop Machining page:

(I hope Jack takes a gander at this page)
http://www.frets.com/HomeShopTech/hstpages.html

It's better for me to just try and avoid people like George. I don't question the work from Williamsburg, I only question all of it that George claims was his. Abe Lincoln said it best, "Don't believe everything you read on the Internet". I could go on about how you don't even know who people are if you haven't met them, because I have seen what appears to be women on machinist forums that guys are tripping over themselves to help them and have conversations with, but who are actually Trans Sexuals.
Rolleyes

"Don't believe everything you read on the Internet".

..............
I don't know anything about George Wilson, who he is or what he does, so I can't really comment. I do remember changing my opinion of a person after I came to know them better, sometimes for the bad {rarely} and frequently for the good. This seems to be especially true after you meet them in person.

And thanks for posting that link, Allan...I have seen it before but lost it somehow..I know now where I will be spending some time tho!!
Winkgrin
Winkgrin
Big Grin
Often Tested.    Always Faithful.      Brothers Forever

Jack Edgar, Sgt. U.S. Marines, Korea, America's Forgotten War
Get off my lawn !
Upset





Reply
(04-10-2022, 12:20 PM)Timberwolf Wrote: And thanks for posting that link, Allan...I have seen it before but lost it somehow..I know now where I will be spending some time tho!!
Winkgrin
Winkgrin
Big Grin
Jack,

Out of luck I just clicked on a couple random articles from the HomeTechShop, and this particular one is very handy for woodworkers who want to flatten a hand plane:

This article shows how to install magnets in the bottom of a granite plate so you can have the mobile granite plate secure when you use it, could be for scarey sharp also, just sayin'...
Smile

http://www.frets.com/HomeShopTech/Magnet...atmag.html

Yes, there are many ways, this is the one Frank came up with when he needed to solve the problem at hand.

[Image: graniteflatmag07.jpg]

EDIT: I should add, I have a piece of granite sitting on the floor of my hand tool shop area, and I actually may do that with it. Yet I have a full and larger surface plate I tape paper to when I need to lap something like a hand plane, so it's not a pressing need. I keep a small quiver of hand planes I frequently use, not all fully sharpened, but in sharp working condition I can touch up on stone(s) or paper. This is just like I would with my quiver of handsaws, ready when needed...I may need to sharpen one up to get the best out of it. For a handsaw I will almost always sharpen it before using them on a project I"m doing, just how I am. Tradespeople didn't send their saw out for sharpening and I don't either.
Smile

Support your local sawmaker and build the quiver you desire! Even if you buy one or two, having a tool made for you custom will have much more meaning. And if you can actually make the tool yourself, well, shop time don't get better for me in that case.
Smile

And if you wear one out, pat yourself on the back and buy or make a replacement.
Winkgrin
Alan
Geometry was the most critical/useful mathematics class I had, and it didn't even teach me mathematics.
Reply
(04-10-2022, 01:25 PM)TraditionalToolworks Wrote: Jack,

Out of luck I just clicked on a couple random articles from the HomeTechShop, and this particular one is very handy for woodworkers who want to flatten a hand plane:

This article shows how to install magnets in the bottom of a granite plate so you can have the mobile granite plate secure when you use it, could be for scarey sharp also, just sayin'...
Smile

http://www.frets.com/HomeShopTech/Magnet...atmag.html

Yes, there are many ways, this is the one Frank came up with when he needed to solve the problem at hand.

[Image: graniteflatmag07.jpg]

EDIT: I should add, I have a piece of granite sitting on the floor of my hand tool shop area, and I actually may do that with it. Yet I have a full and larger surface plate I tape paper to when I need to lap something like a hand plane, so it's not a pressing need. I keep a small quiver of hand planes I frequently use, not all fully sharpened, but in sharp working condition I can touch up on stone(s) or paper. This is just like I would with my quiver of handsaws, ready when needed...I may need to sharpen one up to get the best out of it. For a handsaw I will almost always sharpen it before using them on a project I"m doing, just how I am. Tradespeople didn't send their saw out for sharpening and I don't either.
Smile

Support your local sawmaker and build the quiver you desire! Even if you buy one or two, having a tool made for you custom will have much more meaning. And if you can actually make the tool yourself, well, shop time don't get better for me in that case.
Smile

And if you wear one out, pat yourself on the back and buy or make a replacement.
Winkgrin
......................
Neat idea but I would be very hesitant about drilling so many holes in a Starrett surface plate..Maybe the Chinese Knock-off tho...
Cool
Big Grin
Often Tested.    Always Faithful.      Brothers Forever

Jack Edgar, Sgt. U.S. Marines, Korea, America's Forgotten War
Get off my lawn !
Upset





Reply
You guys must really be using some dinky granite plates!  Had one delivered this past August, needed moved into place with a forkk truck!
Waiting to grow up beyond being just a member
www.metaltech-pm.com
Reply
For those unaware:

George Wilson was a luthier who worked at Colonial Williamsburg. He began working there when he was 29 years old. He also ran the toolmaking shop. Colonial Williamsburg used and sold the tools Wilson's shop made. While the tools were true to the era of Colonial Williamsburg, the process they used to make them was more modern. I don't know that I had any arguments with George.
Still Learning,

Allan Hill
Reply
Does anybody have any saws, or other tools, sold by Colonial Williamsburg?

I'd always heard about the numbers of tools George and his crew made and it never made sense to me that Williamsburg itself would need that many, even over an extended number of years. That they made tools and sold them fills in the blank.
Reply
I don’t own any tools made by them, but I asked George quite a few years back about a Wilson and Laubach dovetail saw. A bit pricey, as I recall. I wanted one, but I didn’t follow through on it. Probably 15-20 years ago. He seemed grouchy but approachable.
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(03-25-2022, 11:56 AM)Tapper Wrote: I'm guessing that I am the least experienced and the least knowledgeable here about this subject. There are obviously several in this thread who are at the expert level. At this level of dovetail expertise there seems to be quite a bit of envy as well as debate about what the most important features are, i.e. wood species, handle hang, tooth count, weight, etc. etc., in a dovetail saw.

As an old salesman and manager of operations and people, the one saying that is NEVER not true is that "people buy from people they like" - it's ALWAYS true. Klaus Pedder and I have exchanged e-mails and we're talking about a saw. For a barrister (again I'm married to the best one I know
Smile ) he seems to be a nice person as well as an excellent craftsman. I still have a ways to go knowledge-wise about dovetail saws. Having been mostly a machine guy this is all somewhat new to me but fascinating all the same. Thanks to all for the information provided.

And while I can be as confrontational as is necessary, my nature is to achieve the best outcome for all. Let's play nice - I don't think Pedder ever intended to step on anyone's toes.

Doug

Doug
I have you beat buddy.      Hmmmm am I saying I am dumb about saws!  Yep I use them and when they do not cut as well I kind of force it.  
Rolleyes
Rolleyes
Rolleyes
Rolleyes
Rolleyes
As of this time I am not teaching vets to turn. Also please do not send any items to me without prior notification.  Thank You Everyone.

It is always the right time, to do the right thing.
Reply
(03-29-2022, 03:02 AM)Pedder Wrote: Hi Ron,

Thank you! I still have this pink ivory to make a handle from.

I don't and we never have coated brass. I sand up to 2000 and than some autosol and then I'm done.
The best stock for spines is nickel silver (used for flatware). it just doesn't get old. (See my ebony saw above).
But since our spine maker died in December i don't know if I can offer any nickel silver spines again
except the 5 spines he made for me in Summer 2020 and still wait for the ebpony to dry.

Cheers
Pedder

Pedder

I did a ton of metal working in machine shop and sheet metal shop in the air force.  One thing I did with Nickel was heat treat it in a special oven and did some odd curves with SS and Nickel steels along with titanium for tubing in some planes.

Email me a photo and dimensions of the backs and I will go into the machine shop on base and see what I can make up
As of this time I am not teaching vets to turn. Also please do not send any items to me without prior notification.  Thank You Everyone.

It is always the right time, to do the right thing.
Reply


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