saw making
#21
Pedder

First what is the wood on the saw.

Second it looks like you make the saw very stable.  What I mean is the spine is rounded until it gets into the wood and  then it is squared off  which to me looks great but adds alot more work I am thinking
It is always the right time, to do the right thing.

Hi, I'm Arlin's proud wife! His brain trma & meds-give memory probs and has pain from injuries, but all is well materially & financially.  
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#22
(03-13-2022, 08:22 PM)Arlin Eastman Wrote: First what is the wood on the saw.

Hi Arlin, it is Karelian Masur birch. Light good to wotk, but bought by weight.

(03-13-2022, 08:22 PM)Arlin Eastman Wrote: Second it looks like you make the saw very stable.  What I mean is the spine is rounded until it gets into the wood and  then it is squared off  which to me looks great but adds alot more work I am thinking

That is a lot of work.
[Image: IMG_0401.JPG]
I build small vices to hold the ends of the spine and file chamfers and then round and than sanding through the grits from P120 to P2500. Autosol after that.
[Image: IMG_0406.JPG]

Result: [Image: P1040414.jpg]

Cheers
Pedder
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#23
(03-13-2022, 01:19 PM)Handplanesandmore Wrote: I don't like super fancy looking tools as they are too beautiful to be dented , scratched etc. The only to keep the boutique tools from cosmetic damages is not to use them!

Hi Simon, I use some fine and a lot of normal tools in my shop. They all get working marks. I don't care that much. But for every tool it is better to be put away before the next steps and don't get scratches from the clutter on the bench.

Cheers
Pedder
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#24
(03-12-2022, 12:00 PM)Pedder Wrote: So just for your fun I post some pictures of my latest saw:
...
[Image: AVvXsEhRyjtibHhqYSEEm39Xt9AaYiZCk-6rdByz...y8k-V=s600]

[Image: AVvXsEhrNF-Vq4dSBhFagMzSEha70uRyhn-Hsdi6...XZWjY=s600]
I have always loved your work, but would like to offer you a small piece of advice that will push your saws to a more refined level.

That is to use a 1-2-3 block wrapped with sandpaper, and start with like 100 grit, which is pretty rough, I can hear you already, but you need to use this course sandpaper so that it won't clog with the brass. This will flatten the cheek and give it a much more refined look, so that the split-nut will have a more professional look to it. This is a tip that Mike Wenzloff taught me, he actually used to use a belt sander and lay the cheek side on top and use light pressure. I've had good luck just using a 1-2-3 block by hand.

Try it, you will be amazed how it changes your cheek appearance, I know I was. I did my early saws as you did, and left the cheeks alone as I was always afraid of contaminating the wood. You need to keep using fresh paper. After the first leveling with the 100 grit, knock it up to about 400 for a few passes, watching the paper so it doesn't clog. I find if you finish the sides of the cheeks prior to assembly, after you sand the cheeks smooth you can just finish the cheeks. I use a rub on finish, and polish it after.

That is really the only thing I can offer you, everything else is top notch work, IMO.

I will probably make more saws one day, but I have my hands full with building a shop.
Alan
Geometry was the most critical/useful mathematics class I had, and it didn't even teach me mathematics.
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#25
(03-13-2022, 07:25 PM)Derek Cohen Wrote: The saw below is referred to a the "St Paul's Cathedral Saw", and sold for a mere £2,850!
My opinion, Shane makes the best saws available. Quite a difference between his which you show with a bronze back/nuts and yours which is brass, but that is what people should expect an expensive saw to be crafted from, IMO. Brass is certainly more reasonable in cost, and way easier to find in workable sizes, so there's a lot less processing to get a finished product.

As for the "St. Paul's Cathedral Saw", Shane's good with names.
Big Grin

He is one of the few saw makers I know of that uses bronze, aside from me. It is one of my favorite alloys to work in the same way walnut/cherry/maple are some of my favorite woods to work. But it's not cheap, and nowadays material prices are through the roof with this rampant inflation.

BTW, your miter box saw is what I recommend to folks for a good all around size joinery saw. If a person only wants to have a pair of saws to cut joinery, 14" x 3" plate, leaves about 2-3/4" of blade depth, I like a .020" plate, 14tpi. One xcut, one rip. Those 2 saws will cut just about everything up to 8/4. I work 4/4 more often. My opinion, means little...saws are a personal tool, I think people over fuss on things like tpi, handle hang, etc...I know I did. Most people are driven to joinery and buy what is known as a dovetail saw because they want to cut dovetails. But what is sold as a dovetail saw is very small, I prefer longer so you can get a good bite. Also the cant, progressive teeth, it's all what it is. If you like that stuff, by all means use it. But saws are like golf putters, a great golfer can putt with a broomstick. A great craftsman can use most any saw, has the ability to resharpen it, and more importantly knows how to use it. I can use a Japanese saw, a gent's saw, open/closed handles, different hangs, I wouldn't blame the saw for any good or bad work I do.

As a test, read my previous message on sanding the cheeks, try it on one of yours and see what you think.
Alan
Geometry was the most critical/useful mathematics class I had, and it didn't even teach me mathematics.
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#26
(03-20-2022, 03:10 AM)TraditionalToolworks Wrote: That is to use a 1-2-3 block wrapped with sandpaper, and start with like 100 grit, which is pretty rough, I can hear you already, but you need to use this course sandpaper so that it won't clog with the brass.


Thanks, but the screws are made from rustles steel.
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#27
(03-20-2022, 03:44 AM)TraditionalToolworks Wrote: ....

BTW, your miter box saw is what I recommend to folks for a good all around size joinery saw. If a person only wants to have a pair of saws to cut joinery, 14" x 3" plate, leaves about 2-3/4" of blade depth, I like a .020" plate, 14tpi. One xcut, one rip. Those 2 saws will cut just about everything up to 8/4. I work 4/4 more often. My opinion, means little...saws are a personal tool, I think people over fuss on things like tpi, handle hang, etc...I know I did. Most people are driven to joinery and buy what is known as a dovetail saw because they want to cut dovetails. But what is sold as a dovetail saw is very small, I prefer longer so you can get a good bite. Also the cant, progressive teeth, it's all what it is. If you like that stuff, by all means use it. But saws are like golf putters, a great golfer can putt with a broomstick. A great craftsman can use most any saw, has the ability to resharpen it, and more importantly knows how to use it. I can use a Japanese saw, a gent's saw, open/closed handles, different hangs, I wouldn't blame the saw for any good or bad work I do.

As a test, read my previous message on sanding the cheeks, try it on one of yours and see what you think.

Alan, I recall the very first dovetail saw you made. It would have been about 15 years ago. You re-handled a gent saw for a gift to someone, and posted the results on SMC. I recall the handle was a burl. 

I may debate who is the best sawmaker: there are some really fine fellows out there. The top four would include Pedder, Shane, Mike Wenzloff and Pete Taran. 

I agree with you about the mitre box size. The big ones are carpenter's tools, and really too large and too coarse for fine work such as mouldings, although they can be made to work, as well all do. The mitre box I showed is the only one I now have left - a Millers Falls #15 1/2. Here it is pre-restoration alongside a Millers Falls #78C ...

[Image: MFMitreboxRebuild_html_m538e5305.jpg]

Regards from Perth

Derek
Articles on furniture building, shop made tools and tool reviews at www.inthewoodshop.com
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#28
(03-20-2022, 10:09 AM)Pedder Wrote: Thanks, but the screws are made from rustles steel.
Works the same for steel I would imagine, but I have never used steel back or nuts, I use sandpaper all the time when I'm working steel with flap discs, rotoloc, etc...I will use scotch brite if I can on a cordless drill, but for a back I wouldn't want the circular scratches from paper, the scotch brite might work well on the cordless for that, but I would guess sand paper would leave circular. A belt sander makes quick work of it, just that I like to use the block by hand.

(03-20-2022, 10:53 PM)Derek Cohen Wrote: Alan, I recall the very first dovetail saw you made. It would have been about 15 years ago. You re-handled a gent saw for a gift to someone, and posted the results on SMC. I recall the handle was a burl.
Indeed it was, I used a Crown gent's saw as it was the closes to a Disston 68/70. I was naive about this entire "dovetail" 'thang, but over time one realizes it's really just a joinery saw, which I started coining mine which were more akin to pattern maker's saws, longer joinery saws with less plate depth. I made it for a Galootaclaus gift one year, when I used to hang out on the porch...That first one was very similar to a Disston 68/70 with an 8" blade.

(03-20-2022, 10:53 PM)Derek Cohen Wrote: I may debate who is the best sawmaker: there are some really fine fellows out there. The top four would include Pedder, Shane, Mike Wenzloff and Pete Taran.
Well, Mike and Pete aren't making saws AFAIK, but hope Mike is still around, he hasn't returned emails for years.

I would certainly put Ron Bontz up there with the best of the makers, and Bad Axe would have to be the premier saw maker of folded backs. Kinda funny seeing he sells what he called a "Stilleto", which is really a pattern maker's style saw.

(03-20-2022, 10:53 PM)Derek Cohen Wrote: I agree with you about the mitre box size. The big ones are carpenter's tools, and really too large and too coarse for fine work such as mouldings, although they can be made to work, as well all do. The mitre box I showed is the only one I now have left - a Millers Falls #15 1/2. Here it is pre-restoration alongside a Millers Falls #78C ...
Absolutely agree, but the small molding is kind of exception in the sense that most people don't work on that stuff all the time, and if you do you get a smaller saw for that task specific. I was just generalizing that for people wanting to cut different types of hand joinery, a 14" 3" plate (2-3/4" blade depth) with a .020" plate is what I consider ideal.

For anyone that does a lot of hand work with saws, you need a quiver, but those 2 joinery saws I describe would cover most furniture.

Anyway, I wasn't insisting you do anything to your saws or even Pedder do anything to his. We all have different taste and different levels of detail we work to. If you look at how Shane joins the rear of the saw back, it is beautiful. Those type of details take time. That's why I place him as the best saw maker today. I believe and have believed for a long time that there is a niche market up at the top end, just as many plane makers have created this boutique market with CNC planes, saws are kind of similar. There are many things that can be done to a handsaw, including inlays, checkering, contouring, etc...
Alan
Geometry was the most critical/useful mathematics class I had, and it didn't even teach me mathematics.
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#29
Quote:I would certainly put Ron Bontz up there with the best of the makers, and Bad Axe would have to be the premier saw maker of folded backs. Kinda funny seeing he sells what he called a "Stilleto", which is really a pattern maker's style saw.

Alan, I agree on Ron and Mark .... which just goes to show that we have some amazing craftsmen around at this time.

I have not spoken with Mike for some years. We used to correspond a great deal. He also made me a few spectacular backsaws. I do hope he is around still. I did try to contact him about a year ago, but there was no reply. Anyone know?

As far as I am aware, Pete is making a new range of saws. They have a similar look to the IT range he began with (I have one - very special saw): "Ne Plus Ultra" ...

http://www.vintagesaws.com/catalog/index...x&cPath=25

... as well as the one I posted here more recently. This is an example of the new saw ..

[Image: DTA_4.jpg]

Anyway, I am just a plonker when it comes to making saws. I make the occasional one for fun, when I want to try something new, such as in the recent case a dovetail saw with a 0.015" plate. All of these guys are my inspiration. I would wish this for more here on this forum.

Regards from Perth

Derek
Articles on furniture building, shop made tools and tool reviews at www.inthewoodshop.com
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#30
Saw makers have been sanding or scraping their handles flush with the hardware for a couple hundred years. In use, most of us use a three finger grip which puts our fore finger exactly where those nuts are. Sanding removes the crisp counterbore edge.

Pedders saw also has a feature missing (omitted) forward of the horn which maybe he feels looks more sleek. But that extra material, which Derek included, is there to give the neck a little extra strength and has been present for hundreds of years.

I support you guys innovating hand tools. My feeling is it’s good to know why things were the way they were before we decide they are no longer necessary.
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