saw making
#31
(03-21-2022, 06:39 AM)adamcherubini Wrote: Pedders saw also has a feature missing (omitted) forward of the horn which maybe he feels looks more sleek. But that extra material, which Derek included, is there to give the neck a little extra strength and has been present for hundreds of years.

Just to understand: Are you talking about that part in the circle?

[Image: AVvXsEhZzjgk3uz0YJsXnURGe_YmFR5O-9ItESJH...=w640-h498]

Cheers
Pedder
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#32
(03-21-2022, 02:38 PM)Pedder Wrote: Just to understand: Are you talking about that part in the circle?

[Image: AVvXsEhZzjgk3uz0YJsXnURGe_YmFR5O-9ItESJH...=w640-h498]

Cheers
Pedder

Hi Pedder

Yes. That's a very weak part of the saw handle. I noticed in the picture below (that Derek posted earlier), the saw handle's grain appears to run parallel to the spine. That's a recipe for disaster. You obviously carefully (correctly) oriented the grain so that you have long fibers running through that area. That's good, but you have much less material there than traditional in your cross section. Remember that's moment of inertia where the height is cubed. Not saying your saws are too fragile, only that the chunk you omitted had a structural purpose. It wasn't purely esthetic.

[Image: DTA_4.jpg]
Look at the same area on this saw above. Notice the grain orientation. Shape looks okay, but the grain orientation would be a non-starter for me. Couple more things: In your picture, look at the height under the bottom of the handle and compare it to this saw. Your saw has more height. That allows someone like me to use your saw to make a dado or dig the corner out of a half blind DT using those heel teeth. The saw directly above would not allow either operation.

Point of all this is: tiny details CAN matter, and they aren't always obvious. Some of these designs evolved over centuries. My approach has always been to stick to traditional pretty closely until I understand everything. I never got to the "understand everything" stage so I've stuck with traditional. But I don't want to discourage anyone from trying new stuff. Only maybe to recognize that a lot of tool features are not purely esthetic.
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#33
(03-21-2022, 03:11 PM)adamcherubini Wrote: Not saying your saws are too fragile, only that the chunk you omitted had a structural purpose.  It wasn't purely esthetic.

Adam two pictures of a saw of us and a 1 lbs hammer.

[Image: AVvXsEgQ8If5F42DaPGetvyk13xG-3OIWj1PrEg6...ACFyw=s800]

[Image: AVvXsEjG6X3LEp4tUq7mUfpdpk5Chr4PeXKdnopH...y7rqg=s800]

do you really think, that part needs more wood than a hammer?
What dou you do with your saws?
Laugh
Laugh

I'm heavliy intersted in saws for 15 years now. I never saw a saw broken there. Other places, yes, but not there.

This is where saws handles break.

[Image: AVvXsEiSdz8SgDZ7RyZrMUiA72j5uedyeKxl9ZMo...jBTDA=s800]
When flat sawn lumber is used. When quater sawsn lumber is used, notheing ever happens. As long as you dont't misuse the saw.

Cheers
Pedder
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#34
(03-20-2022, 10:53 PM)Derek Cohen Wrote: I may debate who is the best sawmaker: there are some really fine fellows out there. The top four would include Pedder, Shane, Mike Wenzloff and Pete Taran. 

Regards from Perth

Derek

I'm pretty sure you know this, but I don't think Wenzloff & Sons are making saws anymore.  I'd add Mike Harrell from Bad Axe Tool Works to the list of top tier sawmakers.  His hybrid tooth profile can be controversial, but I don't think you can question his craftsmanship.  And you can customize your saw - including the filing - to suit your needs.
Still Learning,

Allan Hill
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#35
It is a big honor to be named in the same context as Shane and Mike. There are so many good saw maker, who made saws for a few years and then stopped or even disappeared. Andrew Lunn, Ed Paik (Medaillon tools, woodnets own) Windsor saws, Adam Cherubini, Adria, Andrew Lunn, Norse Woodwsmith, to name a few.

Who is the best? What is "the best" saw? For Small money (Florip tools)? best bang fpor Money (Rob Lee or Lie-Nilesen) Hand made? best sawing best looking, most inventing.

I make saws as a hobby. and I'm happy if I make people happy. And to let Klaus design ideas live on..

Cheers
Pedder

But Shane Skelton is the best western maker, hands down. And I'm happy that he and his familiy can live from saw making. I couldn't.
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#36
Tough crowd. With this kind of scrutiny, as a complete novice I can easily understand why people leave the craft.
Smile 

I have a PAX 1776, probably a piker in this group.  

Pedder, I think the saw you shared with us looks like a piece of art and probably cuts better than anything I've ever had in my hands. Drop me a PM if there's any chance of making your list. I live in Montana USA and while I've never practiced law, my better half did during her working career. Lovely saw!

All the best,

Doug
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#37
(03-22-2022, 10:24 AM)AHill Wrote: I'm pretty sure you know this, but I don't think Wenzloff & Sons are making saws anymore.  I'd add Mike Harrell from Bad Axe Tool Works to the list of top tier sawmakers.  His hybrid tooth profile can be controversial, but I don't think you can question his craftsmanship.  And you can customize your saw - including the filing - to suit your needs.

.........................
Shane Skelton..........
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bgne_FCPV1A
"If you don't read newspapers you're uninformed...If you do read newspapers, you're misinformed.....Mark Twain

Jack Edgar, Sgt. USMC Korea, the Forgotten War 50/55
Get off my lawn !
Upset





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#38
(03-21-2022, 03:11 PM)adamcherubini Wrote: Hi Adam - Can you describe in more detail why the grain orientation on this handle is poor?



[Image: DTA_4.jpg]
Look at the same area on this saw above. Notice the grain orientation. Shape looks okay, but the grain orientation would be a non-starter for me. Couple more things:  In your picture, look at the height under the bottom of the handle and compare it to this saw.  Your saw has more height.  That allows someone like me to use your saw to make a dado or dig the corner out of a half blind DT using those heel teeth.  The saw directly above would not allow either operation.

Point of all this is: tiny details CAN matter, and they aren't always obvious. Some of these designs evolved over centuries. My approach has always been to stick to traditional pretty closely until I understand everything.  I never got to the "understand everything" stage so I've stuck with traditional.  But I don't want to discourage anyone from trying new stuff. Only maybe to recognize that a lot of tool features are not purely esthetic.
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#39
Hi Mueron,

I show it in my picture:
[Image: grain%20direction.jpg]


My grain direction in green, the one of Pete in blue.
Petes fibres don't run through the transistion. That could break (not sure if that isn't a overrated fear).
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#40
(03-23-2022, 02:36 PM)Pedder Wrote: Hi Mueron,

I show it in my picture:
[Image: grain%20direction.jpg]


My grain direction in green, the one of Pete in blue.
Petes fibres don't run through the transistion.  That could break  (not sure if that isn't a overrated fear).
 I see now.  Thx.
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