Going off of Pedders post
#70
(05-13-2022, 03:50 PM)Pedder Wrote: Arlin,

I'm sorry to hear that you help more than you could afford. That isn't a  good way to do it.
But I would like to learn more about it. Are you meeting on a regular basis? In your shop?
What are you doingwirth the Veterans? You should post more about it!
Right now  I never rated the effort, America makes to defend free Europe, more than ever.


Arlin, I feel you're yearning for one of our saws for some time. If you have a free wish, what would it be?
What do you really need in the shop. Or not need but would really like?

Cheers
Pedder

I seriously do not know buddy and will not attempt to guess.

No nothing is done on a regular basis.  They call and come over as a needed basis.  When I started I think in 2010 or about 2 years after the bombing and anyone can correct me is when I started to teach only what I thought I knew by reading here.  Then and a lot of guys here donated tools to me to learn hand tools.  So I did wood turning and using planes on any boards we got to learn with.

With one of our members help from his father who donated some money to us and money we had left over every month I ended up buying about 14 used lathes and turning tools and some planes and when they were confident enough to do it at home I gave them what they needed.  I also made and sold wooden roses to help in giving them tools or buying pen kits to turn.

Back then we had small classes and they taken turns in learning how to make pens, bowls, vases, goblets, and so on and found a good local older farmer who milled trees into boards so bought alot of wood and gave it to the guys to build things.  Now they come to use the tools and some advise or advise I ask here to help them.

I guess the biggest thing is to go to a class on sharpening saws but have not seen one offered yet.  The new Woodcraft store said they will have some classes in the future and a early class for me since I am in the house and meds taken by 7pm.
After the class lots of practice and then get some good files and teach them myself.

I hope this answers your questions Pedder.  Also since I have almost 100 acres of black walnut I get alot of crothch walnut that is pretty spectacular and when I get 4 or 5 good ones I was going to take pictures and see if you wanted them for some handles which I think would look great for anyone using them.
It is always the right time, to do the right thing.

Hi, I'm Arlin's proud wife! His brain trma & meds-give memory probs and has pain from injuries, but all is well materially & financially.  
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#71
(05-14-2022, 01:24 AM)TraditionalToolworks Wrote: I couldn't agree more, but I can see how someone like Arlin could become emotional about it, I know quite a few vets from my rifle club, vets tend to support the 2A and while I'm not a vet, I do as well. The draft stopped just about 2 years before I reached age, I was either a freshman or sophmore when the draft was stopped. After 911 I got pretty patriotic and felt a lot stronger about our Constitution. I have helped a few out that are local and another in SoCal who used to breed Siberian Huskys. Unfortunately he took his life over PTSD, but I helped his widow out. Vets are some of the most loving towards their pets out of most all people. It really shows that most are good hearted people, even given what many have gone through.

I thought I had replied to this thread, but I don't see it so I must have only Previewed it and not posted it...

But I was offering a plate that Arlin could use to make a stair saw if he likes. You could use a backsaw like Derek shows above, I've done that and it works fine, I used a dovetail template to angle the tails, but I have seen it done by eye.

I would use a 13-14 tpi xcut plate as sliding dovetails are most often cut across the grain, as they are really weak cut with the grain.

Arlin, send me a PM if you would like a plate to cut up into a stair saw plate. Either TPI will work and there is not set so you could file it xcut or rip, however you like. You could also cut up an old saw if you have, but 'mo is better as I always say, and it would be better to keep any saw you have given your situation!
Wink

Thanks Alan I sent you a message back. One big thing on making my own saw is I know absolutly nothing about how to do it and that is why I ask questions and still do not understand some of it. I would have to do a hands on while someone was teaching me the whole process and still ask questions thru the whole process so I would understand better. So as in making a saw right now I would have to say NO. I would hate to waste a good pieces of metal or wood in attempting it.

Thank you so very much for the offer of the saw plate tho.
It is always the right time, to do the right thing.

Hi, I'm Arlin's proud wife! His brain trma & meds-give memory probs and has pain from injuries, but all is well materially & financially.  
Reply
#72
(05-16-2022, 06:10 PM)Arlin Eastman Wrote: Also since I have almost 100 acres of black walnut I get alot of crothch walnut that is pretty spectacular and when I get 4 or 5 good ones I was going to take pictures and see if you wanted them for some handles which I think would look great for anyone using them.

Hi Arlin, I sent you a p.m.
Cheers Pedder
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#73
(05-16-2022, 06:12 PM)Arlin Eastman Wrote: Thanks Alan I sent you a message back.  One big thing on making my own saw is I know absolutly nothing about how to do it and that is why I ask questions and still do not understand some of it.  I would have to do a hands on while someone was teaching me the whole process and still ask questions thru the whole process so I would understand better.  So as in making a saw right now I would have to say NO.  I would hate to waste a good pieces of metal or wood in attempting it.

Thank you so very much for the offer of the saw plate tho.
Arlin,

Yes, I understand that, but having a back/plate/nuts goes a long way to understanding the process of making one. At least I, or others, can help you work through the process.

I had a template for a handle that I used a template for off a Mike Wenzloff 8" dovetail style saw. I say this is regard to people feeling that dovetails are meant to use a small 8" saw with only like 1-1/2" of plate depth. This is quite important as this saw will struggle to cut 8/4 joiner, which is approx. 2" thick...but if you're only working 4/4 material, which is 3/4" thick, no worries. It really depends on what size timber one is working with. For this reason I prefer a set of saws (rip/xcut) with about 2-1/2" plate depth. And something to think about, since even if you work with 4/4 material most of the time doing cabinet/furniture type work, there is always a case where you need to use a 4x4 for a leg, or even something larger than 1-1/2" x 1-1/2". It's all subjective, but for me 8/4 is what I guestimate my use and it works for me. I have other saws in case I want to use larger material, even in some cases a full size handsaw may be needed. What I know from experience is that cutting a tenon on the end of a 5x5 leg as I used on my first bench was a struggle with more common joinery saws.

Ok, gotta run...yep, another rust run...getting an old transit for $30, I need it to shoot my south property line to make sure I'm good on setback to the neighbors lot before my grader goes at it to grade the area for the shop. Would suck to either be too close (5' setback), or worse, on their property...that could be a costly mistake...if the owner demands you move it off their property. I don't think they would, but the lot is empty and I don't want to give them a reason to take me to court.

EDIT: forgot to say, 100 acres of walnuts? That sounds like a business in itself to me. Might be worth finding someone to help you cut/sell some of it in select pieces. Even if you had to pay a sawyer, they could come out with a Woodmizer and slice it up, many will take a percentage of the wood and not even charge you. That could be a win-win for someone on a budget.
Winkgrin walnut is one of the premium woods that is absolutely one of my favorites as its is beautiful and one of the most forgiving woods to work. But 100 acres? I am green with envy, greener than fresh cut timber! LOL
Alan
Geometry was the most critical/useful mathematics class I had, and it didn't even teach me mathematics.
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#74
(05-17-2022, 03:55 PM)TraditionalToolworks Wrote: Arlin,

Yes, I understand that, but having a back/plate/nuts goes a long way to understanding the process of making one. At least I, or others, can help you work through the process.

I had a template for a handle that I used a template for off a Mike Wenzloff 8" dovetail style saw. I say this is regard to people feeling that dovetails are meant to use a small 8" saw with only like 1-1/2" of plate depth. This is quite important as this saw will struggle to cut 8/4 joiner, which is approx. 2" thick...but if you're only working 4/4 material, which is 3/4" thick, no worries. It really depends on what size timber one is working with. For this reason I prefer a set of saws (rip/xcut) with about 2-1/2" plate depth. And something to think about, since even if you work with 4/4 material most of the time doing cabinet/furniture type work, there is always a case where you need to use a 4x4 for a leg, or even something larger than 1-1/2" x 1-1/2". It's all subjective, but for me 8/4 is what I guestimate my use and it works for me. I have other saws in case I want to use larger material, even in some cases a full size handsaw may be needed. What I know from experience is that cutting a tenon on the end of a 5x5 leg as I used on my first bench was a struggle with more common joinery saws.

Ok, gotta run...yep, another rust run...getting an old transit for $30, I need it to shoot my south property line to make sure I'm good on setback to the neighbors lot before my grader goes at it to grade the area for the shop. Would suck to either be too close (5' setback), or worse, on their property...that could be a costly mistake...if the owner demands you move it off their property. I don't think they would, but the lot is empty and I don't want to give them a reason to take me to court.

EDIT: forgot to say, 100 acres of walnuts? That sounds like a business in itself to me. Might be worth finding someone to help you cut/sell some of it in select pieces. Even if you had to pay a sawyer, they could come out with a Woodmizer and slice it up, many will take a percentage of the wood and not even charge you. That could be a win-win for someone on a budget.
Winkgrin walnut is one of the premium woods that is absolutely one of my favorites as its is beautiful and one of the most forgiving woods to work. But 100 acres? I am green with envy, greener than fresh cut timber! LOL

Well we do have Elm, Ash, Coffeewood, Red Ceder, Basswood, and others I can not remember.  We want the walnuts to get to 30" + before selling and we have some but not enough yet.  I would say we have over 1000 walnut trees from seedlings to 34"
It is always the right time, to do the right thing.

Hi, I'm Arlin's proud wife! His brain trma & meds-give memory probs and has pain from injuries, but all is well materially & financially.  
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#75
Also I want to thank Pedder for their generous offer to make me a custom saw and will take some wood for part of the payment.

I will have to get back with you on what I need after trying out what I have on woods I have to what I will cut with it.  I admire your saws and handles and always have since I love how craftsmen do their work.  It will be awhile before I can get all the sawing done in both dovetails and box joints and other cuts give you the results here so everyone including you on what is needed and all the "Rake, fleam and other things it is called in saw sharping".

Thank you Pedder and Forget the other name and Woodnet family.
It is always the right time, to do the right thing.

Hi, I'm Arlin's proud wife! His brain trma & meds-give memory probs and has pain from injuries, but all is well materially & financially.  
Reply
#76
(05-18-2022, 12:54 PM)Arlin Eastman Wrote: Also I want to thank Pedder for their generous offer to make me a custom saw and will take some wood for part of the payment.
That's XLNT news, I hope he makes you your favorite saw.

Would be cool if he could use some of your wood for the handle! I have one saw to make for a good friend of mine, it's going to be from a piece of figured redwood he gave me. I know redwood is pretty soft, but he has a barn built out of it...he fished a 60' redwood out of the Eel river in NorCal where he lives. I like to say he's about the best fisherman I know...he got about 20,000 bf and gave me some chunks my son used for some pieces in his art portfolio he submitted to UCLA about 10 years ago...I made his brother a saw out of olive I've shown here before.

To me a custom tools is special. And short of walnut from your property, I love their ebony with the polished brass back, those are classy.

(05-18-2022, 12:54 PM)Arlin Eastman Wrote: It will be awhile before I can get all the sawing done in both dovetails and box joints and other cuts give you the results here so everyone including you on what is needed and all the "Rake, fleam and other things it is called in saw sharping".
Just take your time. You can practice in the meantime, so that when you do get a Two Lawyers saw you'll be ready. Most joinery is suited for a rip saw, but certainly not all. I would have them make you a rip saw and file one of other saws as xcut. You should have both rip/xcut, IMO, but if you had to pick one for joinery I think rip is more useful. As an example, you cut dovetail tails and you need to cut the ends off with a xcut, you could use a rip if you had to, people often do as they tend to be lazy, myself included. Helps to have them on the wall so you can get to either quickly.

This thread is turning out pretty good for you! I hope you build a lot of stuff!

Personally I recommend a 14" sash/carcass saw, 2-1/2"-2-3/4" plate below the back, 13/14 tpi. This type of saw gives you a lot of plate under the cheek, especially on an open handle, so it's not as difficult to sharpen as some of the small 8" dovetail saws, where 1/4 of the blade is obfuscated by the handle cheek. Just my opinion, we all have one of them, as they say...
Alan
Geometry was the most critical/useful mathematics class I had, and it didn't even teach me mathematics.
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#77
(05-18-2022, 07:01 PM)TraditionalToolworks Wrote: That's XLNT news, I hope he makes you your favorite saw.

Would be cool if he could use some of your wood for the handle! I have one saw to make for a good friend of mine, it's going to be from a piece of figured redwood he gave me. I know redwood is pretty soft, but he has a barn built out of it...he fished a 60' redwood out of the Eel river in NorCal where he lives. I like to say he's about the best fisherman I know...he got about 20,000 bf and gave me some chunks my son used for some pieces in his art portfolio he submitted to UCLA about 10 years ago...I made his brother a saw out of olive I've shown here before.

To me a custom tools is special. And short of walnut from your property, I love their ebony with the polished brass back, those are classy.

Just take your time. You can practice in the meantime, so that when you do get a Two Lawyers saw you'll be ready. Most joinery is suited for a rip saw, but certainly not all. I would have them make you a rip saw and file one of other saws as xcut. You should have both rip/xcut, IMO, but if you had to pick one for joinery I think rip is more useful. As an example, you cut dovetail tails and you need to cut the ends off with a xcut, you could use a rip if you had to, people often do as they tend to be lazy, myself included. Helps to have them on the wall so you can get to either quickly.

This thread is turning out pretty good for you! I hope you build a lot of stuff!

Personally I recommend a 14" sash/carcass saw, 2-1/2"-2-3/4" plate below the back, 13/14 tpi. This type of saw gives you a lot of plate under the cheek, especially on an open handle, so it's not as difficult to sharpen as some of the small 8" dovetail saws, where 1/4 of the blade is obfuscated by the handle cheek. Just my opinion, we all have one of them, as they say...

Do not get in to much of a hurry buddy I still have to save the money for it.  I have to find out how much he sells them for to.
It is always the right time, to do the right thing.

Hi, I'm Arlin's proud wife! His brain trma & meds-give memory probs and has pain from injuries, but all is well materially & financially.  
Reply
#78
(05-18-2022, 08:43 PM)Arlin Eastman Wrote: Do not get in to much of a hurry buddy I still have to save the money for it.  I have to find out how much he sells them for to.
Arlin,

I don't see that as a problem as you have time to try and make some tools or figure out how to get a sawyer to help you get some of the walnut cut. Possible another vet might be able to help you as well, offer some of the wood to cut it up.

Are the walnut tall and straight? Where my lake property is located, Lake County of all names, who woulda figured??? Those walnuts that they grow for the nuts are English bases that are large, with another walnut grafted on top. This sucks because there is no trunk that is long enough to get any decent width material. That is the value in it. I've used chunks of walnut from a local tree service that a friend used to get dumped for free, but they were not big and I chunked them up and just gave most of them away over time, I made a mallet out of one chunk.

This is to say, I don't think Pedder's saws are cheap, you just can't do that type of work and not charge for it. Same goes for Ron Bontz. But it wouldn't be as expensive as Skelton for the exact same reason.

Now, here's a win-win for you. Let's say when you find out how much the saws cost, and decide not to get one. No worries as I'm sending you a plate/back and hopefully split-nuts so you can build your own. I'll help you and explain what you need to do. The template is a handle that I made a mistake when I cut it. I think it can be used, it's not a bad mistake, but you will have the template that you can cutout and shape on any piece of 3/4" material. That template is made out of hard maple, but it was not exactly a template, it was intended to be a saw handle. As I said, there is no better tool that one you make for yourself. But short of that, having someone make one for you custom is second best. 3rd best is just buying one made, often very nice tools just less personal. All of our mileage varies.

Maybe this thread will get you to figure out how to harvest some of those walnuts, even one decent tree would net you some decent wood, and if it's really usable wood, you could get a sawyer to come to your property, possibly fell it and saw it up for you. Felling is an art in itself, and a good reason to have someone do it that knows what they're doing. They don't call a barber chair a "widow maker" for nothing...when that tree starts going over it's time to exit stage left in a hurry, just to be safe. If you have 100 acres of walnuts you could have a sustainable income for the foreseeable future...good for you if so. If you find the right property with the right trees, there are some great buys out there.

All of this is food for thought, just to give you some ideas. When you get my package, you'll have what you need to learn how to sharpen handsaws, and I suspect the cost of my package is going to be much easier for you to save for, it really doesn't matter how long it takes you to pay for it, I'll send it ahead of time as I mentioned to you.
Alan
Geometry was the most critical/useful mathematics class I had, and it didn't even teach me mathematics.
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