Paul Sellers sharpening system, which diamond stones?
#31
(04-26-2022, 03:34 AM)Ricky Wrote: He does have interesting view on sharpness. This is a good video explaining his philosophy of sharpness.  He says when using too high a grit
on certain projects he has to "roughen" the surface with sandpaper to get it to properly take the finishes he uses on them.  In other words
finer/sharper not always better in practicality.  

I complete agree, I just watched this video and I haven't seen one of his videos is at least a year or more. To me what he says there makes perfect sense and I kind of agree with my comments on using India stones at my yard where I do log work, it is just not even clean enough to use diamond plates. It's all relative.

Now that I watched this plane video I give Seller's even more credit.
Smirk
Alan
Geometry was the most critical/useful mathematics class I had, and it didn't even teach me mathematics.
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#32
(04-26-2022, 04:01 AM)TraditionalToolwork Wrote: Now that I watched this plane video I give Seller's even more credit.
Smirk

He's a good teacher.
Yes  Takes much of the mystery and confusion out of his craft.
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#33
(04-26-2022, 04:28 AM)Ricky Wrote: He's a good teacher.
Yes  Takes much of the mystery and confusion out of his craft.
I watched the sharpening videos on chisels and plane irons. It is pitiful. Slow and sloppy.
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#34
What bothers me about that video and lots of what I hear about on the internet is that the use of the plane seems to be limited to a replacement for a random orbital sander. All the stock has been flattened and sized by machines, and he’s taking a few swipes to remove tool marks.

I guess that’s what most people do with their planes, so sure, sharpen to 400grit exactly as if you were sanding to 400grit. Why not have a couple planes with different grit blades? And let’s forget about longer or shorter planes. You only need #4 sized planes because all they’re are doing is prepping an already flat, sized surface for finish.

FWIW, my vision and my work has been to replace the surface planer, jointer, and table saw with hand planes. My planes remove a much higher volume of wood. I will admit I used to sharpen all of my tools to 600 grit then strop. But I found I needed to sharpen much more frequently and the quality of some of my work suffered.
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#35
Two things about Sellers. First of all, what you're seeing in his videos is teaching. So, a lot of what he's doing is slowed down because at full speed, viewers might not be able to learn as much. Secondly, everything you see works for Paul. He produces high quality work using hand tools. The rounded bevel on his chisels, the ragged strop, etc. are inconsequential to getting the job done. It works for Paul. You don't have to use or copy his methods.
Still Learning,

Allan Hill
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#36
(04-26-2022, 03:34 AM)Ricky Wrote: He does have interesting view on sharpness. This is a good video explaining his philosophy of sharpness.  He says when using too high a grit
on certain projects he has to "roughen" the surface with sandpaper to get it to properly take the finishes he uses on them.  In other words
finer/sharper not always better in practicality.  


...................
In other words
finer/sharper not always better in practicality.

Good video, thanks...And I pretty much agree with what he says. Why spend the time sharpening to finer grits if it doesn't produce any better work and the extra effort it takes to push the tool doesn't matter...But my theory is, a sharper edge is a stronger, longer lasting edge...Under a microscope a coarser edge is like coarse and more "widely spaced "saw teeth" and the wider the spacing is, the quicker they fold over and become dull...on softwoods, it doesn't matter much but on the harder varieties it matters more and more. That's why a highly polished edge produces a shiny surface on the wood and a dull, rough edge does not. And to me, a really "sharp" edge is a joy to use, and takes much less effort. That's important when you're old like me...And it's another reason I use electrons a lot to sharpen and have lots of sharpening tools and machines.

One last thing, I have found a pretty good test for sharpness is stabbing and slicing an ordinary paper towel CLEANLY...no ragged edges..To me, that's good enough for most woodworking or wood carving.
Big Grin
"If you don't read newspapers you're uninformed...If you do read newspapers, you're misinformed.....Mark Twain

Jack Edgar, Sgt. USMC Korea, the Forgotten War 50/55
Get off my lawn !
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#37
(04-26-2022, 03:55 AM)TraditionalToolworks Wrote: Jack,

Just trying to cut the guy some slack, it's easy to put people under the Internet microscope, IMO.

I haven't really watched any of his stuff recently, I just follow a few guys on IG. Certainly not suggesting anyone follows any of Seller's advice, but he's a pretty credible guy. I don't see his way, but it seems to work for him. As an example, he used a lot of particle or LVM on his bench, as I recall. Not my style of bench, but it seemed to work for him. Lots of great craftsmen out there, some really cool Japanese craftsmen as well as European, etc...Some people have more, some people have less in the way of tools.

Certainly not supporting Seller's sharpening habits, but would still think about using diamond plates, would just look for a set with a finer grit than 1000. Honestly, my water stones are gonna get my tools sharp, I just need to soak 'em for a bit and they'll be good to go. Not meaning to offend anyone.
..........
Allen, the subject of sharpening is never ending on this forum..Many folks make it far more complicated than it really is. I always tell newcomers that are thinking about wood carving or even wood working in general, to learn to sharpen FIRST...because you definitely wont stay with the hobby if you don't! To most folks, sharpening is a huge PITA and they hate it. And then sometimes you run in to old buzzards like me that really enjoy it, and have been doing it and enjoying it since I was a boy working after school in the machine shop. I haven't found anything yet that I couldn't sharpen as well or sometimes better than when the tool was new. And I always tell them that if the way you do it works, stay with it....but keep an open mind and aware of the fact that there might just be a better way of doing it, and don't be afraid to experiment!!!!!!! We learn best when we learn from each other..

Now...go to Amazon and buy one of these round 6" 3,000 grit diamond laps for about 12 bucks and see what I'm talking about !! Use it like a rectangular diamond plate...it doesn't have to rotate to work.. Diamonds are plated onto a ~90thou.flat steel plate in pretty heavy concentration and I think you will be both surprised and pleased at how well they do their job.... You don't have to spend a hundred bucks to sharpen with diamonds. You will probably want to sell your Jap water stones, Belgian Coticules and Escher's after using it!!!

Winkgrin
Winkgrin
Big Grin
Big Grin
"If you don't read newspapers you're uninformed...If you do read newspapers, you're misinformed.....Mark Twain

Jack Edgar, Sgt. USMC Korea, the Forgotten War 50/55
Get off my lawn !
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#38
I was fortunate to have attended several of Paul's classes he taught years ago when he was at Homestead Heritage near Waco.   I use a wide variety of sharpening methods, depending on what I'm doing, my mood, or whatever.  Reading this thread makes me chuckle at each person's strong opinions about "what exactly is the best" detailed method.  This is the thing with woodworking, people get hung up on process, or tools, and skip over the whole point.

Paul is an outstanding teacher - I still carry around a bunch of fundamental practices he taught me.
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#39
(04-26-2022, 06:15 AM)adamcherubini Wrote: What bothers me about that video and lots of what I hear about on the internet is that the use of the plane seems to be limited to a replacement for a random orbital sander. All the stock has been flattened and sized by machines, and he’s taking a few swipes to remove tool marks.

Nah, you needn't be bothered.  Paul has plenty of videos showing his use of scrub planes, jointer planes, dado planes, plough planes, router planes (he even shows how to build one), molding planes etc.  He only used # 4 here for an example.   He seems reluctant in most of his videos to use electrons, mostly focuses on hand tools.

Quote:I guess that’s what most people do with their planes, so sure, sharpen to 400grit exactly as if you were sanding to 400grit. Why not have a couple planes with different grit blades? And let’s forget about longer or shorter planes. You only need #4 sized planes because all they’re are doing is prepping an already flat, sized surface for finish.

In this video he did say there are times when higher grits are helpful.   He even mentioned that his son who builds violins uses 20K grit to
plane the inside of violins he builds.  The surface effects the sound quality.
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#40
(04-26-2022, 08:02 AM)Timberwolf Wrote: ...................

 And to me, a really "sharp" edge is a joy to use, and takes much less effort. That's important when you're old like me...And it's another reason I use electrons a lot to sharpen and have lots of sharpening tools and machines.

One last thing, I have found a pretty good test for sharpness is stabbing and slicing an ordinary paper towel CLEANLY...no ragged edges..To me, that's good enough for most woodworking or wood carving.
Big Grin

Yeah, I'v geeked out on knife sharpening videos in the past.  Hair whittling and slicing through paper towels  a good test of atom splitting sharpness. 

Yes
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